Advice and help

[swordgrunt]

Hi all, I'm new to Doom editing, I started making my first test level yesterday (with Doom Builder) and the most sucessful test .WAD was 05. However, by sucessful, I mean I can actually put items in varied skills and finish the idea of the level.


A door doesn't work, a lift doesn't work and, for some odd reason, a door starts opened. I really need some help about this... where can I upload or attach my test05.wad so some experienced Doomers could help me, if possible?

[alien8]

Have you gone through the Doom Builder tutorial? It'll answer most if not all of the beginner questions and issues that you've got (and probably a few that you didn't know you had). I'm far from being an experienced mapper myself, but I'd be completely useless had I not gone through that guide as well as I did.

[swordgrunt]

Thanks for the quick answer. Yes, actually, I learned how to start to design with that PDF manual, though I never knew about the MS Word one. I'll check it out. :)

[Nuxius]

They are both the same tutorial, just in different formats, AFAIK.

[swordgrunt]

Just noticed that. Well, I couldn't understand the manual very well. I'll have to follow the exact instructions on that demo.wad they provided... and I don't like that, I wanted to learn how to make something and test it on my test level. Oh well, things aren't always the easiest way...

[Tango]

Yeah when I started mapping, I really didn't understand the guide/manual. I think I really just learned by experimenting and picking apart other maps.

[Death-Destiny]

I was pretty dumb when it comes to figuring things out from reading stuff. When I tried the tutorial back when I was learning to map, after much struggle, I got the door, the teleports, and the lift, but couldn't get the stairs. Soooooooooo....

I gave up on that. I just used what I could do to try and make valid maps. Whenever I got a neat idea for something I wanted to add that I didn't know how to do, I'd think "What .WAD have I seem that setup in before... I'm sure I can understand it if I actually see it instead of reading about it." So basically that's how I learned all the basics. Once you become familiar enough with everything, that's when it becomes easy to do many advanced setups.

My advice is just try and mapke the coolest map you can, using other neat WADs as guides for more advanced setups. It'll become easier with time, trial, and experience.

[Kyka]

The most common reason why doors and lifts do not work when everything else seems correct (I assume you know how to set sector tags to assign linedefs to the sectors they are affecting). For doors, the linedef with the door trigger on it must always have the 1st sidedef facing outwards (ie the little line sticking out of the middle) To flip a linedef, "f" is the default key in doombuilder. You may be having the same problem with the lift.

In regards to the door starting open. Check that you have the ceiling height set to the floor. (obvious, I know)If that is correct, check that you dont have the same sector number assigned to anything else that may be trigering the door before you get to it. If in doubt, assign a new sector tag and linedef tag to the door, clearing away any doubling up of tag numbers.

Hope that helps you.

Good luck with your level building.

[Kappes Buur]

http://zdoom.org/zdkb/zdkbviewer.php

Some of these tutorials are definitely zdoom specific, however, all of them are helpful for learning how to build levels.

[swordgrunt]

Thanks to all of you. I was looking at Doom E1M1 and that's how I found out how to make the doors, though, I have to check that facing in/out thing.

About the lift... I thought it only needed the sector tag if there was a switch around. BTW, unless I mis-understood these posts... I should put a sector tag as well for doors, right?

I also looked in DOOM2 M1, for doors and lifts, though the lift had a switch, so maybe I didn't get it very well because it was slightly different.

[Death-Destiny]

The D1 and DR linedef actions for doors should not have tags. The door's linedef just needs to be facing where the player will open the door from. However, W1, WR, S1, SR, and G1 linedef actions for doors all require tags, and with the exception of the W1 and WR tags, must be facing where the player will activate them from.

I hope I explained that well. =/

[swordgrunt]

Well, I set front sides to the sectors from which the player should open the door at first (very tiny sectors, designed only for the doors).

By 'facing' one side, do you mean that very little line that begins south-north (from the door line, which is east-west)? That one is opposite to where the player should open the door from. Perhaps I should make those lines again so they 'face' the player's position?

[esselfortium]

swordgrunt said:

Well, I set front sides to the sectors from which the player should open the door at first (very tiny sectors, designed only for the doors).

By 'facing' one side, do you mean that very little line that begins south-north (from the door line, which is east-west)? That one is opposite to where the player should open the door from. Perhaps I should make those lines again so they 'face' the player's position?

In Doom Builder and most other editors, there will be a little "nub" sticking out from the center of the line, on its front side. If you want to flip the line, select it and press F. No need to redraw anything :)

[swordgrunt]

OMG... that's true... well, now I'm done already.

New problems...

-lift works now, though there are walls in front of it (fake walls though)... I'll try taking out the lower or upper texture.

-doors are extremely confusing by now, they first act like fake walls, then the whole sector's ceiling lowers to the floor when the door closes (not like a crusher, but like if the whole room became an open door)

[Death-Destiny]

swordgrunt said:

OMG... that's true... well, now I'm done already.

New problems...

-lift works now, though there are walls in front of it (fake walls though)... I'll try taking out the lower or upper texture.

-doors are extremely confusing by now, they first act like fake walls, then the whole sector's ceiling lowers to the floor when the door closes (not like a crusher, but like if the whole room became an open door)

Problem #1: If there are walls that you can walk though that you didn't want, it is probably a Mid-texture that you assigned accidentally. Simply select that linedef and replace that Mid-texture with the "-" or whatever means "NULL" in your editor.

Problem #2: If a ceiling of a room lowers like a door, it probably has a sector tag that corresponds to a door linedef action. Select that sector and make sure its sector tag is 0.

[swordgrunt]

#1: Fixed. Thanks!

#2: Sector Tag (sector): 0

Sector Tag (door line): 0

[Death-Destiny]

It would probably be easier for you to upload this to somewhere.

This site is pretty obnoxious, but it's feasible and will be much easier for everyone to help you out.

[swordgrunt]

Ok...

http://rapidshare.com/files/129455047/test05.wad.html

[Death-Destiny]

Ah, that's much easier to give advice on. Here's my tips:

1. Doors, lifts, and anything else must be put in their starting positions in the editor. Otherwise, they will simply end up however you left them. As such, you'd want to lower the first door to the floor.
2. All linedefs must face towards where the player will activate them from to work correctly.
3.For doors and lifts or any sectors you raise out of the floor or lower from the ceiling, you want to use upper and lower textures. mid-textures are generally for walls bordering the null space outside the map. If you lowered the secter from the ceiling, assign an upper texture, and assign a lower texture for sectors raised from the floor.
4.The bleeding textures come from leaving walls untextured (HOM error). Make sure all walls the player can see have textures.
5.When making pillars or similar solid things it the middle of rooms, it is often better to simply delete the sector to fill it with null space instead of lowering it through the floor, giving it midtextures, and making it impassible.
6.One error was because a linedef wasn't referencing the right sectors. make sure linedef's front sides reference the sector at the front and the same for the back.

Well, that's a lot for now. I fixed these things in your test map for you to look at so it'll probably just be easier to look at that and compare it with your original. I see a lot of potential in you. Your health/ammo balance and monster placement already seems pretty good. Please stick with it because I anticipate some cool maps from you once you get comfortable with your editor. =)

Oh, and the link: http://files.filefront.com/test05DDfixwad/;11050003;/fileinfo.html

[alien8]

Death-Destiny said:

5.When making pillars or similar solid things it the middle of rooms, it is often better to simply delete the sector to fill it with null space instead of lowering it through the floor, giving it midtextures, and making it impassible.

I've never heard of this before. Is this considered the 'ideal' way to create pillars?

[Death-Destiny]

alien8 said:

I've never heard of this before. Is this considered the 'ideal' way to create pillars?

Yes, it is. If the player is looking at a pillar created by lowering a sector almost to the floor or with impassible mid-textures, doom will have to render all the SEGS located behind it even if they're not visible. While the players eyes can't see them, Doom thinks it has to keep track of them anyway. With all the advanced ports and powerful computers these days, it's really not an issue, so it's only a major concern for vanilla maps, which have a rendering limit of like 256 SEGS or somewhere in that ballpark. It's basically just more efficient.

[swordgrunt]

Thank you, Death Destiny! I'll download the map and see how you've applied the corrections. Thank you a lot!

[swordgrunt]

---IGNORE AND SKIP TO BOTTOM PART (EDIT)---


I'm really sorry I'm double posting, but it's just so it stands out. I added one final section to test05 and everything works perfectly... except for two things.

1- A switch activated once, that opens two fast doors - though, I'll find this one out myself.

2- I can't even explain. Well, there's a sector, that is connected to the rest by the doors the switch opens. They're opposite. In each one you'll follow a hall with a few monsters, and in both you'll find the same teleporter that ends the level. Actually, they're mirrored, and in one sector only.

One side works perfectly. But, in the other, it only works as intended after the first direction change (turn left). There's no explanation. The Hell Knight supposed to be there attacks me on IDCLIP, though I can't see him anywhere. The ammo in the corner is pickable from the first valid space, I got it without IDCLIP. And, in the editor, one side is exactly like other, at least, how I have seen.

I believe I should upload it so you people see for yourself... http://rapidshare.com/files/129522549/test05DDfix.wad.html


Edit: I really couldn't imagine one thing affected the other! I looked at a Doom2 map and got how the switch was, and now... everything works perfectly as intended!

So, I'll begin making a WAD (with many levels) instead of just testing... now, a question: how can I add more levels to a WAD? Do I need to save over the .wad file (I believe not)?

[alien8]

In Doom Builder, you'd choose to create a new map, but name it MAP02, or E1M2 for Doom1, etc, and then choose to Save Map Into. From there, select your original wad file. After that, when you load the wad in Doom Builder, you'll be able to choose which map inside the wad you want to work on.

[swordgrunt]

Oh, I noticed that save option. Thanks. I hope to make a 32-level WAD, though that's not necessary I believe... so, if I don't have more ideas, I'll stop wth less than 32. It's a lot anyways