EPIC New Map Finished and Ready to Play!

[Death-Destiny]

Prepare yourself for one of the coolest maps you've ever seen... an EPIC map of cacoward-worthy proportions!

Just kidding... I wish, right? ;-P

I'm going to rant now, so if you just want the map, titled "Disturbia", skip all the irrelavant information between my made-up HTML tags... =/

[Skippable]
Anyways, I've got another map ready. I was browsing around for new maps to play when I came across this map, "Dentil" by Tim Williams. It was a well-presented map, but pretty simple and short though. I played it and thought "this is a neat concept, I ought to make a quick map expanding on it." Well, I planted the seed of this map in the soil of my imagination and it went from there. From there, it got pretty huge with a par time of about 35-40 minutes and is now only very vaugely related to "Dentil"... you don't care about any of this, do you?

Moving on, I was part of a discussion about how the chaingun is a neglected weapon, since there are more pistol-only maps that I can think of than chaingun-focused maps. So this map has no shotgun, shotgunners, or SSGs. To compensate, you get this:


I call it the SCG (Super Chaingun ;]). It's basically just a chaingun that fires 50% faster, but it's actually quite useful. The ammo cap has also been double to 800 with the backpack. The damage it does is the same, so it requires the same amount of ammo. The above screenie is what it takes to keep the gun useful, which is probably why chaingun maps are uncommon because they have to be mapped around...

This is probably the largest map I've ever made since I exceeded the SEG limit and had to eliminate like 1000 redundant SEGs to make this basic Boom compatible. I don't remember ever exceeding the SEG limit before.
[/Skippable]

I ought to mention the default skill level for this map is HMP. In fact, this map was designed for that skill and is the one that will give the best experience. UV is LOLHARD and will likely not be fun due to the frustration of dying repeatedly. Even if you like challenges, I strongly recommend playing on HMP first to experience the map as intended and because you will need to have scouted out the map first to do a UVMax run anyways. The demo this time is an HMPMax since I want to encourage you to play on HMP.

The map can be downloaded on my website, here. By the suggestion of someone in another thread, I've made a simple website for my stuff since it seemed like a good idea. If you've got any suggestions for this site, nows a good time since it's still fairly simple. In addition to what's already there (stand-alone projects and Dark Plutonia progress), I could also add demos and contributions to community projects amongst other things. Also, once I get any ideas for KEWL GRAFECKS, I could add those too, since the site is just links, text, and screenies as of now.

Comments and suggestions much appreciated.

[<inactive>Player Lin]

Cool map, but too hard for me in UV.

The Super Chaingun is awesome...
and I found the fun in "sv_fastweapon 1". :P

[GreyGhost]

Death-Destiny said:

I was part of a discussion about how the chaingun is a neglected weapon

I thought we were discussing neglect of the plasma rifle? :-)
. . . downloading . . .
That's massive - there's no way I can beat the par time AND kill everything on the map.

[gggmork]

:D :D Really looking forward to it. I'll probably download & play it after I finish my 1024 map. (also maybe link from your site to that one community wad that had your 2 maps in it?).

[deathbringer]

Long maps, powerful weapons and heaps of ammo is doom heaven for me, downloading...

(Hmm, i once attempted to do a run-through of a map based on my school using only the SSG, which meant i had to snatch the thing from under the noses of two mancs first, that was entertaining)

[EarthQuake]

This is indeed epic!

I made the mistake of playing this with ZDoom, forgetting how horrible it was when dealing with Boom maps, so of course half a hundred things didn't work properly and I couldn't finish it. I still had a blast playing it though. The difficulty was extreme, but I had netplay and item respawning enabled (it was on UV too), so I would respawn at the start whenever I died, with a full stash of ammunition and armor.

The architecture was grand-scale and epic... I love maps with high-walled canyons and high ceilings that give you more room to do stuff with. Very beautiful and perfect design. You chose your textures wisely and took caution in aligning everything (although I did spot a few minor misalignments).

Oh and use of Cyberdemons and archviles together? Brilliant! Such tough battles in the mouth of the demon! Constantly blinded by archviles and dodging rockets, but still being careful not to get caught in the blasts of their spell! Fucking epic man.

I absolutely loved this map. New favorite.

[Mechadon]

It felt like and looked a lot like the Mucus Flow from CC2...except just hopped up on steriods. It is epic indeed and I really liked how the map made you feel so small and powerless. Though I'll say it was a little tough for my blood.

Good stuff Death-Destiny :)

[Spertz]

I had alot fun playing this. Great monster placement!

[hawkwind]

I found the wad frustrating. Just too many monsters and not enough health.

Did anybody play this in gl mode ?

BUGS ...

Way too many unclosed sectors ! Note the effect after crossing line 9544 and examining the rooms which the doors open to. Examine sector 199 and line 7470.

Sector 907 has the wrong ceiling flat.

Certainly and "epic" pwad.

[Jodwin]

I usually like good HR style maps.


But I didn't like this one.

First of all, I hated how the ammo and health is, few meaningless exceptions aside, only available in few "caches", requiring the player to backtrack all the time to keep ammo and health on max. That's just horrible design and no one should do that, ever.

The monster fights were boring and the map design, although pretty, rather bland and repetitive. Only thing I could say I liked was the "Land is in slumber" computer. That was nice.

[Doom Marine]

Jodwin said:

First of all, I hated how the ammo and health is, few meaningless exceptions aside, only available in few "caches", requiring the player to backtrack all the time to keep ammo and health on max. That's just horrible design and no one should do that, ever.

Nah, I like the ammo placement the way it is; it gives me the sense that I have a "home base." I'm about 10 minutes into the game and haven't used up the starting bullet supplies yet.

I'm liking the height variations and the openness of the level so far.

DD: The first cyberdemon inside the mouth is pretty much a sitting duck and a waste of time. All I had to do was camp in a corner that doesn't allow his rockets to hit me back, and fire a couple hundred rounds. No-brainer.

[Jimmy]

Too many archviles (especially in the mouth area...what the HELL man), and too many nigh-on-infinite spawning points, and the chaingun is...bleh. I mean, that sound is pathetic.

Otherwise an overall enjoyable map. Nice lighting, architecture, and use of Boom features. :)

[printz]

Quite some detail and monster placement for such a short designing time. :O

EDIT for those complaining that it's too hard and it's frustrating so it's bad: HEY this is a game SO it doesn't hurt to have to think. YEAH, it's challenging, so you'll have to think out the battle solution and possibly do some trial-and-error while at it. AIN'T this the role of a game? To be challenging? If it's too tough for you, do this: 1) lower the difficulty level (oh, my ego, I REALLY have to play UV, otherwise it's not DOOM), 2) play doom.wad or doom2.wad instead, 3) play a 90's casual wad, 4) use your patience and keep on this wad at UV if not at Nightmare.

[gggmork]

I only played almost all the way through on uv with saves (and plenty of deaths) using zdoom (no problems as mentioned above) and think its FANTASTIC CAPSLOCK1!111@@@ Very tricky and well thought out gameplay, and beating it on uv with no saves would really feel like an accomplishment. I almost think the opposite of most others in that I like your other maps visually better but this gameplay is awesome. The focused health/ammo makes the level unique but there are warps later that cut down backtracking anyway.
The gameplay setup became obvious to me pretty quick, but its pretty essential to know that some enemies are basically unkillable at the beginning so it will be a waste of time/ammo shooting them. That forces you to have a continuous threat of projectiles (lol at the slow down later when hundreds are simultaneously crushed which I assume is what happens). The multi-door area was great. It would have probably helped ammo-wise if I didn't kill that first sitting duck cyber at the beginning.
Also despite its size, I didn't get lost at all and it was pretty obvious which way to go due to the theme of 'hit a switch to access more of the level'.
I like the softer chaingun sound actually. The normal one can get aurally annoying. Similar to arachnotrons REEAGH REEAGH REEAGH REEAGH stfu

[Death-Destiny]

hawkwind said:

Way too many unclosed sectors ! Note the effect after crossing line 9544 and examining the rooms which the doors open to. Examine sector 199 and line 7470.

Good call, Hawkwind. I've corrected the unclosed sectors and posted an update on my site for those who they were bothering (Yay, no more bleeding shadows on open gl! =D) It is pertinent to note that these unclosed sectors cause a very slight change in the maps structure, so if you're recording a demo of this map, you should use the new version, as demos from the old version will desync in the new one.

This issue has a story behind it that leads to a question. Normally, I draw sectors so the backside is facing outwards. Therefore, to make the scrolling textures, I have to flip them. I use Doomuilder to do this and applied the linedef action and everything. When I tested the map, there were "unclosed sectors" everywhere. When I looked again in my editor, I saw to my horror that every one of the 497 linedefs I had flipped only changed the orientation of the line, but not the sectors they reference (which is normally switched.) So I had to go back and manually assign all these sectors (since the flip function started working correctly and also switched the erroneous sector references). I'm not certain why that happens. I tried flipping more linedefs back and forth and the sector references were switched like normal. Is there a limit to the number of linedefs that Doombuilder can flip correctly at once? Since I like scrolling textures, I'd best just decide where I'll put them and draw them in as they will need to be.
I ran a search and I believe I caught them all this time. =/

@Doom Marine: Point taken that the Cyb in the demon's mouth isn't terribly potent. To be honest, I just put it there to block the entrance so the player couldn't just rush past all the other demons that teleport in later and into the final area. =/
I'm glad to hear that the ammo bunkers gave the map a "home base" feel. That was really my intent, which is why half the secrets link between them via teleporters.

@gggmork: Yeah, the second or so of lag in the secret area is from Doom having to interpret 700 enemies dying simultaneously, but it seems to speed up pretty quick though afterwards. As for the chaingun sound, I agree that it's just as unrealistic as the regular doom weapons, but at least it sounds better than whatever sound the chaingun normally makes. =/

[Use]

Okay, this is the first of yours I've played, unless you've done anything in a megawad I'm not aware of. At first I was a little put-off by how similar it appeared to Mucus Flow, since that map has such a strong personality my initial impression was this map riding on it's laurels. Turns out the Mucus Flow image is only 'skin-deep', as I found this map to have more refined gameplay, and a more direct and approachable layout.

The EPIC style has never been my favorite, but I can appreciate it done well. If anything I found the map to be a little too long, but it never got boring. It wasn't very hard, I didn't find a problem with health but I may have an unfair advantage, using the superchaingun made the map a little easier I think. When I first learned Dehacked, I made some custom weapons for my megawad, one of them being a 'superchaingun'. While not quite as fast as this one, I kept it in the game and play with it often, using small bursts to conserve ammo and taking out the more aggressive baddies with it is fun, so I may have a little more practice with this kind of weapon.

I also like the texture combinations. Too often mappers are not using a varied pallet of textures because..well I'm not sure why. It's like there's some unspoken law that STARG can only be used in techbases or whatever. The texture scheme makes the map stand out and makes several scenes more colorful and memorable in my opinion. Anyway it's like coolsville daddio

[The Green Herring]

Use3D said:

Okay, this is the first of yours I've played, unless you've done anything in a megawad I'm not aware of.

He designed three levels in Dark Resolution 2008 (MAP02, MAP10, MAP11.)

I can't really contribute much to the discussion since I haven't finished the map yet, but it's looking nice and difficult from what I've played so far.

[Doom Marine]

The lift leading to the blue key can break the game(?). I hitted the switch to raise that lift and ran away. Now I'm not sure how to re-lower it.

[Death-Destiny]

Doom Marine said:

The lift leading to the blue key can break the game(?). I hitted the switch to raise that lift and ran away. Now I'm not sure how to re-lower it.

Hmm... you are correct. The only switch that lowers it other than the one on the lift itself is S1. That is indeed an oversight. I've changed it to an SR switch and put the updated map version on my site.

Thanks for catching that! =]

[deldelda]

Either I did something wrong, or the first teleporter secret (behind the arachnotron at the start) that leads to the 3 PI spheres has a red teleporter that leads me to a "closet with no doorknob". Good thing I'm a compulsive saver ... great map so far, even tho I've just been camping wasting my ammo on the neverending supply of imps on the high pedestals ... haven't got very far but I plan on beating it eventually =)

EDIT: Does everyone have to put a giant mouth in their maps? And I'm gonna have to restart; as much as my OCD wants me to kill all those imps 'til they stop teleporting there isn't enough ammo in the first cache to accommodate that =)

[Death-Destiny]

deldelda said:

Either I did something wrong, or the first teleporter secret (behind the arachnotron at the start) that leads to the 3 PI spheres has a red teleporter that leads me to a "closet with no doorknob".

Hmm... I'm curious as to how you got back there. I couldn't find anything to climb on to get me back there. Did you Arch-vile jump? Ah well, I might as well set the door to that closet to open from the other end seeing as how there are apparantly two ways to get to the PI spheres. The change has been made and the link on my site updated.

[<inactive>Player Lin]

hawkwind said:
Did anybody play this in gl mode ?

I play this WAD with GZDoom r131M.
And I see a lot of HOMs in many areas.
(Sorry, I'm lazy to take screenshots... :( )

EDIT : I haven't try the v2, I will try it later.

I love the "Shuting down the 'alien-teleporting station'(?)" secret!
It killed A LOT OF enemies and I was worry about how to get 100% kills without enough ammo.

EDIT 2 : I played the v2, it so cool! No anymore HOMs. I like this level!!

[hawkwind]

Additional bug found for DisturbiaV2 ...

In gl mode again, note the effect at height 608 when sectors 687, 688 and 690 have raised. Especially noticeable with glboom+. HOM.

I also thought that the action/type for line 3281 was a bit odd - changing the texture of the floor/lift.

Also a suggestion ...

Why not give lines 14711, 12325, 12326, 12327 and 14710 action/type 37 and give sector 1922 the floor flat RROCK20. The effect is much better IMO.

[GreyGhost]

deldelda said:

And I'm gonna have to restart; as much as my OCD wants me to kill all those imps 'til they stop teleporting there isn't enough ammo in the first cache to accommodate that =)

I tried doing that before discovering the "teleporting station switch" - terrible waste of ammo.

[Butts]

i like the size of this level. large, open levels with good architecture and design please my aesthetic tastes. i played this on UV right off the bat, and it was not as hard as you promised, just time consuming. i did find it pretty fun too, although with just a chaingun it can get tedious, and i really didnt think this was a ripoff of mucus flow or anything, that map had its own personality and this one felt different, it felt like a mix between deus vult, run buddy, and alien vendetta. at least to me it did.

[printz]

VERY IMPORTANT: The Superchaingun sprite is not centred correctly, as the bullets appear to the left of the muzzle, making hitting enemies difficult. Will this be fixed?

Keep in mind that raw Boom doesn't understand internal DEHACKED lumps; only most ports derived from it do. Anyway, hardly anyone seems to use raw Boom these days, preferring to run PrBoom, which they confuse with a Windows port of Boom, when it's not... It's more like a Windows port of MBF, which does support DEHACKED lumps.

[Doom Marine]

Finished the level. It was fun for the most part. The architecture and connectedness is good. A few things to ponder:

Suppose a certain player is obsessive compulsive about making a safe quarter, and waste an inordinate amount of ammo at a certain location... like the continual monster replacement sites. He uses up his ammo supplies, and does not have enough firepower to rescue the next key. What then?

I've wasted far more ammo than I should trying to determine which site has continual monster replacements, and it ended up costing me more bullets, cells, and rockets to the point of starvation. I mean, the continual imp replacements were no biggie, but to kill a cyberdemon only to find that there's another one coming is just disheartening.

Consider the situation when the ammunitionless player drops into the mouth with 50 health, how does he get past the first wave of teleporting blocking viles?

This was my first time through the level and I used a bunch of saves to redo and avoid those ammo drain sites. I don't think this is fair in terms of the gameplay logic serving the first-time player. I'm sure you'll correct this?

[printz]

Doom Marine said:

continual monster replacement sites

This sounds like coming from Doom mappers' jargon. :P

[Death-Destiny]

Alright, I've read over the comments here. Printz was right that the SCG fired 3 pixals left-of-center, so that has been corrected. The main issue that needed to be corrected was that the monster replacement sites were difficult to identify outside of trial-and error, which links to possible ammo deficiencies using ammo on them. I noticed I used the COMPBLU texture at most of these areas, so instead I replaced it with a red variant like this:

Above, the Arachnotron can be killed, but the Spiderdemon cannot.

Originally, I expected the player to mow down like 10 or so recurring imps to discover that they won't stop coming. They would then assume similar results for the other imp locations. However, they would not assume that the Cyb would come back, for example. Since I only put this red texture on replacement locations, the player can make the association that red = cannot kill. The gameplay with the replacing monsters seems a lot of fun to me, so I just need to figure out how to indicate which ones are replaced, though I think this idea might work.

I also corrected a few other minor things, like a stray HOM, an extremely obsure place where the player could get stuck, and added some ammo immediately within the demon's mouth, as the Archie/Cyb battles are focused more on gameplay than ammo management at that point, and a few other trivialities that will probably go unnoticed.

I think all the major concerns I had have been addressed (mainly the replacement locations and the ammo balance.), so I think this map is pretty close to being finalized. I've updated my site with V3 with the above fixes. Thanks for your assistance, everyone! =D

[Doom Marine]

I'll be glad to test the map again when you have it ready. It's nice to not be the mapper for a change!