EPIC New Map Finished and Ready to Play!

[EarthQuake]

Neat. I never realized that there were areas where monsters would continuously spawn. I didn't see this happen when I played with ZDoom.

Anyways, nice to see you're making some worthwhile improvements here. Keep at it! You've got a four or five star wad in the works. :)

[hawkwind]

V3 is much better.

@Death-Destiny -

psst ... you forgot to change the floor of sector 1922 to RROCK03 ... ;)

Also the line type/action on line 4778 is unnecessary, and theoretically, could cause problems.

Great map ! :)

[gggmork]

The main exploit/tactic I found on uv was in the mouth; instead of dropping down into the first room of arches and a cyber, hang off the ledge and punch to wake them up and make the arches infight him (takes 3 minutes but far less risky for me). Soon after when there are 2 cybers close together, its possible for both to get frozen in place probably stuck on a linedef or something (just chaingun either for awhile and they might get frozen. Perhaps making the lines 'block monster' would fix that if you aren't sick of changing stuff by now).

At the beginning of the map, after hitting the first main switch I immediately go into the chaingunner opening just to the left. Its quite safe in there and you can kill everyone in that area quickly from that shelter. I use that cubby again immediately after triggering the nearby switch that causes teleporters (the cyber shouldn't even see you and is deaf so will stay there).

Might be better if the series of telefrags also killed all those high imps so you don't have to try to chaingun them when barely visible on screen. Maybe not.

[printz]

EarthQuake said:

I never realized that there were areas where monsters would continuously spawn.

They'll end up eventually. This is not Hexen, to allow unlimited spawning of Ettins.

I also encountered annoying (but quickly-ending) monster-respawners in Hell Revealed level 24, namely those two Mancubus posts.

[Death-Destiny]

Alright.

@Hawkwind: changing the flat does indeed look better. Thanks for that suggestion. Line 4778 is for multiplayer. If it weren't there and all members of the team die before lowering the next barrier, there'd be no way to lower the lift again from the bottom. If I'm correct, that linedef action shouldn't do anything if the lift is already lowered, so shouldn't cause any problems on single player.

@gggmork: The Cybs do indeed get stuck which, ironically, is because of the block monster lines. I believe that Doom thinks monsters are stuck if there is not at least like 3 pixals on either side of it either North/South or East/West (or something to this effect.) I've made their areas slightly larger so they should have enough space now. I was originally planning on making the player telefrag all the imps, but then all the deaf monsters teleported into the canyon would see the player. I'd rather they be fought in groups and not one big mass. A teleport chain of 40 locations is probably a bit lengthy anyway.

I've updated the WAD yet again and put it on my site. I don't really mind fixing these glitches. The hard part is already over and these are all quick fixes. Again, thanks for your help testing this, everyone.

[Edit]I probably ought to put the link to my site here so you people don't need to revisit the first post.[/Edit]

[gggmork]

Another option, if interested, could be to have the super crusher switch activate all the high imp sectors (then they'd die but you wouldn't alert the deaf groups).

Also if interested two ideas to possibly stop the mass crush slow down: 1) less enemies to crush obviously; might not affect gameplay since they seem to just be reserve teleporters and not that many are needed probably.
2)This might work. Keep the same amount of enemies but divide the huge crushing section (actually I'm assuming this is what it is since I haven't looked at it in doombuilder) into multiple sections each with maybe 64 pixel varying ceiling height (then each of these sections crushes independently). The point of this is that it wouldn't be so much dying simultaneously due to varying crusher height, and maybe that alone would stop the slowdown. But actually I kind of like the slow down, heh heh.

[hawkwind]

Death-Destiny said:

@Hawkwind: Line 4778 is for multiplayer. If it weren't there and all members of the team die before lowering the next barrier, there'd be no way to lower the lift again from the bottom.

Gotcha!

[Kyka]

YOU WANT SUMMA DIS??? AND HOW 'BOUT YOU?? COME GETSUMMA MA NOO CHAINGUN. AND YOU AND YOU. OOOHHHH.... EVERONE WANT SOMMA DIS!!!"

Yeah the new chaingun rocks. But it didnt stop me from dying, a lot unfortunately. Tough map, not that that is a bad thing. The gameplay felt really fresh even so.

Aside from that,the only thing I would add is to perhaps consider replacing or altering a few of the Cyb fights. I found them a little time consuming, as wherever possible I got the archs and the cybs to infight, and found myself floating around the edges like a spectator rather than a participant.

Wonderful map. I was always wanting to know what was around the next corner, what was in that room, what was beyond that hill, and was prepared to fight to get there. Sounds kinda silly, but to me, a map that makes you want to explore it is one of the signs that you have a good map on your hands.

Doom Marine said this, but I too like to make areas "safe" and I wasnt totally sold on the limitless imps thing. I wasted a lot of ammo, thinking "Surely this is the last one, only to find myself with no ammo for later fights, and having to start over.

But once I worked out that they wouldn't run out any time soon, it was cool after that.

[Death-Destiny]

I just thought of a better way to indicate the continual monster replacement sites. Instead of trying to guide the player to figuring it out, I can just as well tell them about it:

I put this right behind the SCG where the player will see it. I think this will help the player realize more quickly that they are not expected to try and kill all the enemies in these locations. I hope using the red texture here and at these locations will seem more intuitive. There's no way to be certain since most of you've played this already, but it's better than before. I suppose "infinite" is kind of a tacky word in relationship to things, but it's the best I could think of that had the correct meaning. =/

[Kyka]

sounds a lot better than "Shitloads of demons teleportation sequence initiated."

[esselfortium]

Death-Destiny said:

I just thought of a better way to indicate the continual monster replacement sites. Instead of trying to guide the player to figuring it out, I can just as well tell them about it:
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2627/doom13ha1.png
I put this right behind the SCG where the player will see it. I think this will help the player realize more quickly that they are not expected to try and kill all the enemies in these locations. I hope using the red texture here and at these locations will seem more intuitive. There's no way to be certain since most of you've played this already, but it's better than before. I suppose "infinite" is kind of a tacky word in relationship to things, but it's the best I could think of that had the correct meaning. =/

For future reference, you might want to use the DeepZ font that NiGHTMARE and Risen created based on the letters used on Doom's computers, originally for use on computers in KDiZD. You can find more info and the download link here. It should look better and be more consistent with the other computer textures in the game.

Also, SILVER1 might look better than SHAWN2 for that desk/computery thing, and it looks like the wall light to the right of the screen might be misaligned or on a line that's the wrong length for it.

[gggmork]

Not that anyone likely wants to see this but whatever. zdoom 2.2.0 uv demos that DON'T work on the current v4 version (it works on the version BEFORE the 'infinite teleportation' sign (which is also called 'v4') or it will desync.

uv beat most of it but die in the mouth (about an hour):
http://www.sendspace.com/file/3lsxnu


uv mouth only (idclipped over there instead of doing all the previous again, about 10 minutes, this one also seems to work on current v4 version):
http://www.sendspace.com/file/62fvof

this is the wad version you need to not desync (also titled 'v4' so could get confusing unless you save in a new folder or something):
http://www.sendspace.com/file/1qh2s1

[Death-Destiny]

gggmork said:

Not that anyone likely wants to see this but whatever. zdoom 2.2.0 uv demos that DON'T work on the current v4 version (it works on the version BEFORE the 'infinite teleportation' sign (which is also called 'v4') or it will desync.

Hmm, that sign must have changed the nodes. I guess I'd best title the one with the sign as V5 or something, not that the sign is that important or anything.

@ gggmork: Hey, you've been recording a lot of demos of my work... you wouldn't mind if I include some of them in the zip files for my maps would you?

[gggmork]

If you want but you're not obligated to of course. They'll just get obsolete with the next version of zdoom anyway. And I didn't fully beat this one or beesong. I guess I just prefer the look and feel of zdoom but might try prboom again sometime.

[Kira]

Didn't know that we can make infinite spawn of monsters under boom, am I dreaming ?
Anyway, I've played one time in UV to see a bit the map, and I died at the second archvile.
Nice map, remind me a lot of HR21, but in an expended version.

I'll try to finish it later.

[Death-Destiny]

[IMPORTANT!]
OK, I redid the signpost at the beginning of the map. It was unintentional that the nodes were altered (which is why the version was still V4) and this version works identically to the previous V4. gggmork's demo will not desync in this version.

I've updated my site with the correctly-noded V4, which should be used for demo-recording. My apologies for that.
[/IMPORTANT]

On a side note, I really like Zdoom as well, but as mentioned, the way it's coded makes demo recording with it hard to do (as the demos are version specific.) Since I've gotten more into demo-recording, I started using the test version of PrBoom, PrBoom V2.4.8.2. After using it for a while, I must say that I really like it and, IMHO, feels very similar to Zdoom. I would highly recommend it to Zdoom users looking for a Boom-based port, as I can honestly say that I prefer the test version of PrBoom just slightly over Zdoom.

[Kira]

What said I months ago :P

[GreyGhost]

PrBoom-plus has become one of my favourite ports, although I do miss the crosshairs and look up/down keys. It's one I'm using to check out old crap vintage wads before uploading.