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Doom Marine

Clearly no one Black worked on [Resident Evil 5]

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I really don't see the problem here. This conversation is getting cyclical. It's Africa. The majority of the population happens to consist of a group of humans who were enslaved 200 years ago. Crying racism in the name of political correctness is just another form of discrimination, disguised as tolerance. You can't coddle people, and you can't sugarcoat the truth. And what no one has pointed out is that most of all, that's an insult to black people. They are being marginalized by non-blacks in an effort to "protect" them! That's a load of crap, and not any less racist.

You want to call this game racist? I disagree. I do not look at the color of one's skin. When I see someone on the street, I see a human being, not a black or a white person. When I see this game, I see it at its most basic, human vs. zombies. The skin color is not a factor. You may tell me I'm ignoring the racial connotation, but I tell you to rise above these classifications and stop bringing the past into the argument. I argue the connotation is being perpetuated by those who continue to point it out. Consider: white killing black is wrong, yet white killing white and black killing black is OK? Because they don't have the same connotation? That's insane. What to do, restrict ourselves to killing within our own race in video games so that we don't get called racist? That's absurd and I don't agree. And no, I am not ignoring racial issues by failing to see a racist connotation here.

The fact that racism still exists in this world does not mean you should treat things like this any differently. If you wouldn't bat an eye when a white zombie is being killed by a white man, you shouldn't when the zombie is black. Or Hispanic. Or Asian. Etc. If you do, then you're falling into the trap of perpetuating the connotation. We have to move forward or this stalemate will never end.

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alexz721 said:
And what no one has pointed out is that most of all, that's an insult to black people.

It's an insult either way. Racist elements will show up either positively or negatively, since they spring from the culture where the game or whatever was made (and not just conscious intentions or reasoned designs). You can't change that. That's no reason not to discuss the subject, though, especially to anyone capable of making personal decisions in regard to what they spend their time on (such as gaming).

Use3D said:
The reality, as I pointed out to Myk, that is if you see controversy in some polygons on a screen that are dressed up to look like black people, it just gives more power to the Jack Thompson types that want to see video games banned or censored or whatever, it's a cycle that won't stop with black zombies. Where's the line here? Uh oh, now Native Americans are pissed because they were stereotyped in Prey, better pull it from shelves. Where's the end Doom Marine? Where? I'm cold...hold me.

Oh, yeah, let's not openly discuss and examine the cultural implications of what we spend so much time on (games) in a intelligent and critical manner, or otherwise let's be sure to set certain limits on such a discussion... or else someone like Jack Thompson may win!

When you think that way, Jack Thompson is a little imp inside your very head, as well as a bogeyman out there.

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myk said:

It's an insult either way. Racist elements will show up either positively or negatively, since they spring from the culture where the game or whatever was made (and not just conscious intentions or reasoned designs). You can't change that. That's no reason not to discuss the subject, though, especially to anyone capable of making personal decisions in regard to what they spend their time on (such as gaming).

I never said don't discuss the subject, as I did take the time to state my opinion on the subject quite clearly, yet if you admit that racist elements will show up positively or negatively, then what's the point? That's why I'm saying we should break out of this mold, otherwise we all lose either way.

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POTGIESSER said:

So if you cook pork and Arabs happen to smell it and declare racism you can be charged for preparing a meal?


Unfortunately I've seen real-life examples of inviting non-muslim people to avoid "offending" or "provoking" muslim neighbors, coworkers etc. by consuming or cooking pork during the Ramadan. And that was in a Christian country (Italy).

IMO, anytime you mix people with too different belief systems and ethnicities you will end up marginalizing some of them and overprotecting others. Or else they will sort things out themselves, usually in the worst possible way (compare Muslim vs Christian communities in some African countries).

You just can't make any sort of religious fundamentalist and a moderate/nonbeliever to live in perfect harmony (I'm taking a quite European viewpoint here describing the majority of Europeans as moderate christian or on the verge of non-believing, although not proclaimed atheism).

More in general, you can't make a group of people living by a strict code/rules to tolerate the presence of other groups of people living without such codes or with too different ones. There's a reason why e.g. the Amish have chosen to live in isolation, because they would either become corrupted or very soon come in conflict with other people if they were to live among "normal" Americans.

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alexz721 said:
yet if you admit that racist elements will show up positively or negatively, then what's the point?

By that I mean explicitly or by the evidence of their absence; that doesn't diminish any point in the practice of analyzing the question. On the contrary, being aware of that fact adds to such a point, as one can see how the makers of the game dealt with possibly hairy situations where the race issue may come up. Out of observing games and the like, I'm more interested in seeing prejudice, bias, or ideology on a larger scale than whether a particular developer is racist or the like. You can't analyze social, unconscious, and semi-conscious factors if you merely stop to accuse specific parties for all that. I might end up not liking some of the games or other entertainment because of the observations, though.

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IMHO the makers of the game didn't give a rats ass about what some PC lunatic on the other side of the Pacific would think. The game's setting was in Africa, and how do you make the player know that he's in Africa and not e.g. in Sweden? By killing black, african zombies (else they would be blond, swedish zombies).

The fact that that might have been viewed as racist just can't concern a race/country that has no prior grudge with blacks, and which anyway regards anything western as fancy and trendy. Yeah, even Nazi-chic and watermelon blackface "Uncle Tom" figurines. Without taking it to that extreme, using the equivalent terms for "nigger" in e.g. Greece or Italy at most will make most people recall some stereotypical blackface or colonial cotton-pickin', blues-singin' setting with banjos, and laugh about it.

BTW, to all Americans: having released so many "gangstah" music and movies for decades doesn't help either. Most Europeans think that (american) blacks are all gangstas and pimps that go "Yo yo, check dis out muddafucca niggah!", while non-american blacks are...well...poor blokes selling illegally copied CDs, DVDs or accesories down the street.

So don't blame e.g. Greeks if they still laugh at the "Harlem funeral" joke or other similar cultural gems.

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Maes said:

BTW, to all Americans: having released so many "gangstah" music and movies for decades doesn't help either. Most Europeans think that (american) blacks are all gangstas and pimps that go "Yo yo, check dis out muddafucca niggah!", while non-american blacks are...well...poor blokes selling illegally copied CDs, DVDs or accesories down the street.


Heh, my friends and I have been discussing how a normal black American must, after sitting down in front of the TV after a hard day working at the office, cringe every time they see a black artist on MTV or whatever. They are almost always doing that aggressive-pose, spastic hand gesture thing whilst "spitting out lyrics" about drugs, guns or their dick, wearing too much gold and other "street" gear and cruizin' in their low-rider whilst being surrounded by almost naked booty-ass hos gyrating all around them. Almost every video reinforces the violent, over-sexed crimnally inclined nigger image. And of course Hollywood doesn't help much either. I wonder what the ratio of smiling-joking-quick-talking-wide-eyed-black characters is to other kinds of roles that could be taken on by black actors? Chris Rock (and many others) I'm looking at you.

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myk said:

By that I mean explicitly or by the evidence of their absence; that doesn't diminish any point in the practice of analyzing the question. On the contrary, being aware of that fact adds to such a point, as one can see how the makers of the game dealt with possibly hairy situations where the race issue may come up. Out of observing games and the like, I'm more interested in seeing prejudice, bias, or ideology on a larger scale than whether a particular developer is racist or the like. You can't analyze social, unconscious, and semi-conscious factors if you merely stop to accuse specific parties for all that. I might end up not liking some of the games or other entertainment because of the observations, though.

I agree wholeheartedly.

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Enjay said:

Heh, my friends and I have been discussing how a normal black American must, after sitting down in front of the TV after a hard day working at the office, cringe every time they see a black artist on MTV or whatever. They are almost always doing that aggressive-pose, spastic hand gesture thing whilst "spitting out lyrics" about drugs, guns or their dick, wearing too much gold and other "street" gear and cruizin' in their low-rider whilst being surrounded by almost naked booty-ass hos gyrating all around them. Almost every video reinforces the violent, over-sexed crimnally inclined nigger image. And of course Hollywood doesn't help much either. I wonder what the ratio of smiling-joking-quick-talking-wide-eyed-black characters is to other kinds of roles that could be taken on by black actors? Chris Rock (and many others) I'm looking at you.

I cringed when I heard about Xzibit being in the X-Files movie. After seeing the previews he seems to be embodying a serious character much to my relief. The "normal" African American is perceived as a sellout to the whiteman in respect to the stereotypical culture.

It's also amazing at the illusions that music videos sell. You see artists in videos with flashy supercars, private jets, designer clothes etc, and they don't own any of that shit. Just all rented props for a video to create a perception grandiose excess. Some really have it but some don't. Old saying is "Fake it until you make it." That show MTV Cribs, some people featured don't even own the stuff they're talking about. Houses included in some cases. There's an episode with 50 Cent showing off his Ferrari collection: an Enzo, F50, and a 599. It was later discovered by Ferrariphiles that they were rented from a private collection.

It's not always up to artists either. Rather producers and managerial types that want to sell a false image. As it has always been.

Oh shit, thread derailment. Back on topic, Capcom are a bunch of culturally insensitive racists because the undead have feelings too. A group headed by racist white people unleashes a virus upon an unwitting rural population in Africa. Oh wait, that mirrors the whole conspiracy about the origin of AIDS.

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If a zombie epidemic goes worldwide, OBVIOUSLY black people will be affected just as much as whites and asians. Tell God to stop being so racist while you're at it.

Also lets remember that Africa is practically the birthplace of all mankind. (in some circles)

Enjay said:

I wonder what the ratio of smiling-joking-quick-talking-wide-eyed-black characters is to other kinds of roles that could be taken on by black actors?


Morgan Freeman

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If they decide to port this game I hope that they don't choose SourceNext to do it. Those people need to go to hell.

I saw no problem with the trailer. The newer trailer looks out of place though, because...well, it is Africa..

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Chu said:

The newer trailer looks out of place though, because...well, it is Africa..

I think that's actually the issue with RE5. Consider this. In a diversified city with lots of blacks, white, asians, etc... people all colors of the rainbow living and working close together, racism will probably not be an issue. If you see a black person on the street, well, there are black people everywhere, many of which you probably either know or associate with, thus eliminating stereotypes to some degree.

RE5 has not had a diversified cast in its history, so I think that starting now makes it stand out, like a black person in a primarily white city. There's of course nothing wrong with either, but it's something that people will more readily take notice of.

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I have read in Game Informer that Africa isn't the only place RE5 will take place in. They didn't say anything beyond that, though.

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