a beginner to editing

[Lost Soul]

Hiya! I'm new to editing as I just said in the topic, and anyway, I wanted to know. What's a good, user friendly editor that doesn;t suck? I"m looking for editors for Levels, sounds, monsters, making new textures/monsters/sounds, the whole 9 yards. any suggestions??

[Fredrik]

Try DeePsea (sbsoftware.com)

[Searcher]

Deep Sea

[Fredrik]

Spelled DeePsea by SBSoftware

[Erik]

Screw DeepSea, use deth. Btw, all editors are more or less user hostile so don't expect an easy ride.

[Fredrik]

WadC is the best.

[stphrz]

Yeah, if ya want the whole nine yards, just buy deepsea. You really should try different editors though. Most of them are free, well documented and work fairly well. Whatever editor you choose you will need patience. Spend lots of time reading the docs. You can find all of them in the utilities section here on doomworld.

[deep]

Most of them are free, well documented and work fairly well.

A FEW are "well" documented, the majority are not. Briefly:

As a rule, the Windows ones by far outshine the DOS ones in the documentation dept, mainly because Windows has a built-in help feature.

So my advice for a beginner is to forget most of the DOS ones, especially older ones that don't support the new ports, especially ZDOOM/Hexen mode. Unless one want to follow an endless link of separate "fan" docs - that exist only because there are no docs.

That reduces the list to a very short one of 2 Windows shareware editors: DeePsea and WadAuthor (relatively friendly with docs) and 2 free DOS editors: DETH and ZETH (with no docs) and arguably "hostile" to beginners as the other guy pointed out:)

[Lost Soul]

Okee, I downloaded WadAuthor, and now it won't work.
I unzipped it, and when I try to open it, it tells me
"windows cannot open this file. Windows needs to know what program created it. and the text file link here doesn;t work. How can I make this work?

[stphrz]

Hmmm. Delete the zip you downloaded and re-download. I've never seen that error before...

[deep]

I"m looking for editors for Levels, sounds, monsters, making new textures/monsters/sounds, the whole 9 yards. any suggestions??

Only 1 level editor does all of the above.

There are 2 other programs you need to d'l and learn (unless you used DeePsea) to make textures, monsters .. the whole 9 yards. That's either Wintex or XWE. DeePsea, Wintex and XWE approach these issues quite differently. They are all on the utilities page here at DW.

Actually you need an audio pgm to create new sounds or music and some graphics pgm for making the textures and sprites, but that's getting ahead of the curve.

Usually beginners wants to do this, but get frustrated because they don't read the docs:) It takes some time to get up to speed - unless you are already heavily experienced in some other game's level editing. I'd say at least 3 months - of casual tinkering.

[Lost Soul]

I deleted, and re- downloaded, and I was greeted by the same error. In the Folder I get, there is Zdoomold.wcf, and Zdoom.wcf . neither of which work, but rather give me the same message as in my earlier post

[boris]

What about running wauthor.exe?

[Gokuma]

I recommend DETH and the rhyming editors because of the precise control they give me. Using DEU which they're descended from I was forced to learn the details of how a level works. Definately learn how the sector references on sidedefs of linedef work if you going to make levels, even if your editor does a good job taking take care of it for you. The only other level editor I touch is WadAuthor and I just use it to copy and paste from one level to another. After making a level in *ETH or modifying the structure of vertexes, linedefs, or sectors, I build the nodes with BSP or WARM to make it playable.

For inserting gfx and sounds I use dmgraph and dmaud with batch files to insert gifs and wavs, then export the entries from a created wad to another new wad with New Wad Tools to get rid of the few hundred blank entires those two editors create. I use New Wad Tools Pro for textures and Wintex for setting the offsets of weapon sprites.

For gameplay modification you can use Dehacked to modify a copy of your normal doom.exe or doom2.exe and run the modified exe file and/or save a deh patch for people to apply to their exe with dehacked or preferably run with many source ports. The alternative to Dehacked are the DDF files of DosDoom/EDGE you can easily modifiy with just the dos text editor or notepad. Unfortunately multiplayer seems to be broken or disabled in EDGE and any version of DosDoom with DDF implemented. DosDoom multiplayer might work alright without a DDF mod, but with one with even just a few weapons people get kicked with inconsistency errors when they're using all the same exact files.

Once you get the basics down, there's Boom effects in most ports, Hexen's ACS scripting and level format in ZDoom, slopes in the newest versions of ZDoom but not the ZDoom based ports/mods, Fraggle scripting and true 3D structures in Legacy, RTS scripting and true 3D structures in EDGE. For ZDoom there's ZETH, otherwise you don't really need any more editors.

[Gokuma]

I might have the answer to your Wadauthor problem. You select the wcf files as configuration files. You don't just go to open like with wads. Then you might need to make a zdiwhack.wad for Wadauthor to read as your main wad. I think a Zdoom editing package might come with a conversion utily to convert a copy of your doom2.wad or doom.wad into a zdiwhack.wad in which the levels are in Hexen format.

[DooMBoy]

Just get the Shareware DeePSeafor Windows (it's a 2.4 meg download.)
I've never liked any other editor as much as I like DeePSea.

[deep]

..DETH+ZETH .. BSP .. dmgraph .. dmaud .. New Wad Tools .. Wintex .. notepad

That's exactly what a beginner want to see(?): Learn 8 1/2 poorly documented programs not counting the audio, music and graphics programs he has to learn.

Actually there's even more - INKWORKS or XWE or DeePsea for PALETTE editing.

That's ought to scare anybody away. Simply put DeePsea can do ALL of the above:) COLORMAP editor in a few days - lotsa fun so are.

In ANY editor one has to learn about sidedefs. And all the other nitty gritty details. IMO reducing the workload by giving 1 program and integrated documentation is something a newcomer can't do without. Just because one has memorized a complicated set of tools, there's no reason to wish them on a beginner.

WA is a good start and has good docs - easy to read an follow for a beginner. Beyond that, one again has to hop all over the place:)

[Erik]

Hey, I started editing with no docs whatsoever, and it worked out fine. I think you'll have better potential to be good if you learn the hard way, but that's just my opinion.

[boris]

Hey, I started editing with no docs whatsoever, and it worked out fine.

Yeah, me too! Back in the days, DEU2, no docs, yay (argh!)

[Fredrik]

I think you'll have better potential to be good if you learn the hard way

I guess I'm living proof... ;P

[magikal]

I'm new to editing myself and chose Deepsea whose interface I find exremely user friendly.I don't know if there are any friendlier though...

[Fredrik]

Yeah, DeePsea's interface is very user-friendly. I had been struggling with other editors for months trying to learn mapping without knowing what the fuck I was doing when I suddenly stumbled upon DeePsea, and figured out practically everything in short time.

[stphrz]

I guess I'm living proof... ;P

*<--------Pic of eyes rolling into back of head goes here.

;)

[SaGa]

heh i started editing like 4 years ago, i think the editor i used was doomcad made 2 levels with that then whent to windue, but all those memorable wads are lost in the now not working hd

[Fredrik]

Go play my "unreleasable" map that was released on Doomcenter. Pure newbie crap :)

[kristus]

I use:
Deth for level editing. (It owns me down)
Wintex for quick adding of resources and setting coords for sprites.
DeuTex to make a complete fresh build of a resource wad and other major works.
DoomEd to add new resources as Dehacked lump and such.
Notepad for writing scripts.
lvlinfo to add scripts.

I hardly ever read docs.. reading docs makes no sense too me.. It goes faster for me to just find it out on my own..

Yes it's a long list of programs.. but I like it this way. Call me odd.

[CapNapalm]

I might the minority here, but I use DCK exclusivly for editing levels. It has a couple of annoying bugs and is DOS only but I really like the way DCK let´s you create new Sectors.

[Lobo]

I use wintex for all the inserting of graphics,sprites sounds and lumps. It's well documented and the help file is a life saver.

I've recently had a look at Wadautor for editing levels and the truth is I love it! It also has very good help included.

With these two, there's nothing you can't do!

That's my two cents :-)

[deep]

How do you make a patch taller than 128 in Wintex? Large textures? Accurate texture merging?

How do you edit dimensionally large levels in WA? Or zoom in on tiny 2x2 details? How about the new ZDOOM/BOOM flags?

The more one gets into modifying levels, sounds and graphics completely - especially with the new ports, the more one finds out what can't be done and/or how awkward it is. GLBSP lumps are another.

[Lost Soul]

I'm definitely agreeing with DoomBoy. I got DeePsea, and I love this thing! I'm still learning just how to use it correctly ( I just learned how to make a proper exit, rather thana strange texture error one. the last one a very big texture leaked wall that ended the level if you shot it.. not my intent. I was trying to make a teleporter :P )
the only drawback I can see to this program is that it's only a shareware download. There must be money invloved to get the full version :( But even the shareware one kicks ass!! ;)