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Zoost

DOOM 4 will focus more on pure action elements

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http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?story=53989

When asked whether the game will be rooted in the horror genre, Carmack indicated that it will instead focus more on pure action elements a la Doom 2.

Recognition al last from the Master himself!

Carmack explained that he found some of the complaints of Doom 3's brand of horror to be "completely valid," saying that the "contrived nature of monsters hiding in a closet" and the extreme darkness were two things that caused the company to cancel its game Darkness and begin production of Rage.

Indeed, thank you John.

I'm looking forward again, open up the doom 4 forum please.

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Captain Red said:

Just as long as it doesn't turn into an serious sam shit fest...

What are you talking about? Serious Sam rocks, and coop rocks even more.

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exp(x) said:
What are you talking about? Serious Sam rocks, and coop rocks even more.

01 get locked in a room
02 kill a hundred monsters
03 exit room
04 got to 01

It's fun for the first 5 levels.

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Wow, for once even I'm starting see why Doom 3 was kinda "meh". It lost its novelty after the first couple of months. The thrill of it will never be the same as that day I played it at Best Buy when it was first released.

I'm looking forward to that same feeling when Doom 4 comes out, possibly lasting beyond that initial stage.[/corny]

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Painkiller and Serious Sam are both awesome. I was always disappointed that Painkiller didn't have Co-op.

Nice to hear that about Doom 4, too.

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So basically what he's saying is...Doom 4 will be to Doom 2 what Doom 3 was to Doom 1.

That is to say, some extremely well-graphic'd shade of the original.

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MasterOFDeath said:

That's why it rules. Its just murdering tons of dudes. Speaking of Painkiller, that's one of the most underrated games ever.

Painkiller I would like to play, but I'm beomcing more and more turned off everytime I get back to Overdose (which I got just two weeks ago). Its fun for a while, but level after level its the same exact fucking thing over and over. Having the ability to go where you want whilst mostly unrestricted in your actions would greatly improve the gameplay IMO.

Anywho, yeah. As long as it's not that "kill this room then move on" shit, I'll be a bit more satisfied

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I hope they include the spiderdamstermind this time

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Captain Red said:

01 get locked in a room
02 kill a hundred monsters
03 exit room
04 got to 01


Well, Doom gives you the freedom to move between most rooms.

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Serious Sam was a gun game, yes, but it's not Doom. Doom2 had some awesome environmental challenges and puzzles that Serious Sam lacked. Doom2 wasn't just about slaughtering demons. If they make Doom 4 a Serious Sam clone (not saying they are), then they will make the same mistake they made with Doom 3; Too narrow focus.
Not that I'm opposed to what they're saying with this new info at all. I just hope they remember to broaden the game.

Important parts of Doom2:

  • Sandboxy, open levels
  • Plenty of action in open areas
  • Colorful design
  • Episode variety: Base --> City --> Hell
  • Environmental challenges and puzzles
Please don't just take point number two and run with it.

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herooftime1000 said:

Ah, well. As long as they give out some thrills, I'll be satisfied.

I just hope they give out a scare or two, though.

Scares don't come from cliche bogeyman themes. They come from you caring about the outcome of your game and having that outcome threated by some situation in the game. This has been obvious since the days of Wolf 3D or before.

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Coopersville said:

Well, Doom gives you the freedom to move between most rooms.


Which is something I would like to see to have a comeback which most modern FPS mostly lack (including Serious Sam and Painkiller which you walk to a room/area the door closes behind you and you fight a horde a monsters which by once all the monsters are defeated the next area opens up and you walk inside and the process repeats itself which gets repetitive really quick)

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What scared me about the original Doom was the fact that you were essentially lost in a base full of free-roaming enemies. You could hear the enemies as they roam around, but often times you were left wondering from which direction they'd come from. There were many times where I'd jump out of my chair because an enemy I hadn't yet dispatched would manage to sneak up behind me, or I'd be attacked by something without knowing where it was attacking me from.

Relying on cliché movie scare tactics and having things pop out at you only works once. Doom 3 probably could have been very scary, but the fact that you always know where your enemies are coming from completely ruins that.

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I think Doom 4 might actually be good, because with Doom 3, they didn't have much time with level design and it was mostly focused on engine coding, but with Doom 4 the engine's already there and it's only minor changes, so they would have more time to focus on level design.

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Captain Red said:

01 get locked in a room
02 kill a hundred monsters
03 exit room
04 got to 01

It's fun for the first 5 levels.

Wow. If you don't like that, you'd HATE Doom.

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Bucket said:

Wow. If you don't like that, you'd HATE Doom.

Did you play the same Doom as I did? Or is there some other Doom game out there where this happens?

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Doom is often "publically" being dumbed down to being exactly like Serious Sam. It's a huge misconception. Anyone who actually thinks Doom is as simple and monotonous as Serious Sam should really go back and actually play the game. In certain aspects, Doom is more advanced than Doom 3 and many other, newer games. Doom 1/2 were not just about pressing down the forward key, shooting everything in your way, like Half-Life 2 and Quake 4 (Or even Doom 3).

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My doom4 wish-list

1. capture the spirit of doom2 gameplay
2. convincing death animations, and even the possibility of wounded enemies, make them scream and let them suffer, I want to see monsters with shot of limps, that still want to kill me. I want zombies begging for there zombie lifes, I want over the top blood and gore.
3. open area's, lots of monsters on screen
4. Monsters should be hunting the player throughout the whole game. The only trigger should be the player entering a level.
5. cool weapons
6. convincing AI (aggressive monsters, smart people / zombies)
7. I want to see without making use of a flashlight.
8. Don't try to scare me with darkness and monsters popping out a corner (boo!)
9.I liked the Far Cry saving system (save points) please implement. I don't like hitting the save button all the time.
10. No storytelling. It is a game (fun, remember?) I don't want to read or have somebody talk to me in a game.
11. At the end of the level, I want to know: elapsed time, number of enemies killed etc. (because it is a game, I want to know the score!)

Doom3 wanted to be something else than a game (a movie? An interactive book?) Id should remember that a game is about competing, about being better, about the score, about F.U.N.

I hope the will get it right this time. I hope and think they will.

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Zoost said:
7. I want to see without making use of a flashlight.

What I'd do if I were them is give the helmet a light amplification function which requires batteries. Maybe it could get damaged if you were to be hit on the head (becoming unstable or even disabled, depending on the severity of the blow); you'd need to find another helmet to regain proper functionality (unless you stored a spare in your backpack). Perhaps the batteries would also be used for other items (maybe as plasma gun ammo and for the computer map).

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Interesting list, Zoost. There are a couple of points I don't agree on, though.

2. I want blood and gore too, but I want it to be tasteful. Doom/2 got it just right. There were dead, twitching, impaled, hanging, half marines about. Monsters "melted" when they died (caco/mancubus), but it was all done in a tasteful manner. What you are describing about seeing them suffer and begging for their lives, well that's over the line and straight into sick. Let's keep it somewhat tasteful.

4. Well. I would prefer it if the player had to be at least somewhat close to them in order for them to seek him out. Otherwise the level would end up empty in the late areas.

10. What? Doom 1 and 2 had some nice storytelling. I know that many people today laugh at the Doom storyline, but it's not like they have gotten much further today. Take games like Quake 4, Half-Life 2 or crysis. The storyline is just as "inexistent" as Doom2's storyline. Anyway, I'd like them to take a step towards better storytelling in Doom 4. Doom 1 & 2 were exceptionally great games for their time in many areas. And for an action game, their storyline really pulled me into this dark and dangerous world. Doom 4 should be no different. They should do their best to take FPS storytelling to the next level.

You mention you don't want to have to read or listen to people talk to you ingame. Well. The latter is Half-Life 2 and Quake 4's awful and primitive way of conveying the story. It's even the main method in those games. In small doses it can be good, but when you're facing a really long and boring monologue like in the two above mentioned games, you're bound to find it dull. Having to read can be very frustrating, especially if it's an actual demand and not an option for further details.

You mention that a game is about competing and about being better, about the score. That is true to some extent, but it's just one part of what a game is about. Many modern games don't feel like games, I would agree with you there. I enjoyed "playing" through Half-Life 2, but that was because it had some very interesting landscapes and it was an enjoyable movie. It was certainly not a game. I didn't die once during the play of HL2 and I'm not really a hot-shot player. It just wasn't at all challenging. It was about pressing down the forward key and sometimes pressing the fire key. Doom3 suffered from the same (wanting to be a movie), but the game part was a bit more evolved, even though it came off as being repetitive. Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil was a lot more robust on the action side of things. Quake 4 was a joke in terms of progression. It was exactly what Captain Red mentioned earlier:

Captain Red said:

01 get locked in a room
02 kill a hundred monsters
03 exit room
04 got to 01


Except you could add in a point 3.5: Listen to long boring monologue.

I think what they need to do with Doom 4, is to bring back some of the awesome traits of Doom 2. The sandboxy level design, the verticality of levels, the environmental challenges of crushers, toxic floors and so forth. Another very important thing that has been lost throughout the years is the monumental change of setting.

Doom 1:
Episode 1: Base
Episode 2: Base with hellish influence
Episode 3: Hell

Doom 3 had all of this, but the base part took up the vast majority of the game while Hell was just one level and the hellish influence was a little rare and not too interesting (with some obvious exceptions like the central processing map!)

Let's have some actual changes of scenery throughout the game that will help cement the feel of progress.

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