The Dread Keep: My first wad

[Solarn]

NEW: Here's a reimagined version of the first map. *UPDATED* http://www.sendspace.com/file/4z9v7c

So far there are only three maps, but I'm still working on it.

Map01 is a very short little map that I'm planning to expand on later when inspiration comes.

Map02 is a somewhat non-linear map, as after the first few areas, you arrive in a hub room from which you can visit four differently themed areas in any order to unlock the exit room. There's a catacomb area with an admittedly frustrating maze (especially in UV), a green keep, a hellish pit and a corrupted base. It's been tested in ZDoom, but theoretically it should be Boom compatible.

Map03 is a large, mostly wood/metal themed map with some green marble and lots of sky and teleporting around. It's still not entirely tested, so it might have some bugs.

Thank you everyone who pointed out the mistakes I made in my maps!

Map01 screenshots





Map02 screenshots







Sendspace download link:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/kk245f

I'd also like to ask why XWE creates a bunch of duplicate vertices when I load the wad in it, that then make it impossible to build the nodes. As it is now, I can't rename the levels because of that.

[Haloless0320]

In my opinion I try to stay away from XWE as much as possible.I only use it to edit sprites, textures and Patches. I just don't think XWE is very stable on Vista so I stick to Doombuilder for map editing.

I'll download it and give it a try tonight. I'm a bit new myself so don't expect an expert opinion.

[Solarn]

Thank you. I still have Windows XP and I don't plan on updating to Vista. And I only know how to change a level's name with XWE.

[Vermil]

You've got the visuals down (notably texture and flat alignment), though I might have added a few more scenery things. I also noticed that the halls with the torches were darker than the surrounding rooms without them, which is fine for ports that have dynamic lights, but they may look odd in ports without. Also the door tracks don't look particularly good. Finally, you might want to check linedef 621 for a tiny visual mistake.

I found Ammo and health balance very good, but the chainsaw containing secret wasn't needed at tall imo since I don't think players will find it until after the maps large battle.

Interesting set up with the Revenant's in the red area. There was a good mix of cramped and non-cramped battles. Though for maps larger than this one, you might want a bigger scale.

A tiny oversight, it is possible to pick up the Red Skull key without crossing the trigger line.

In short, it was an entertaining little, if flat, map. An enjoyable map to play for the few moments it lasts.

One small point though. The map appears fully Vanilla compatible except for three Boom line types.

The first is a Boom scroll texture right line type (85) placed on a wall of indented skulls in the start room. Why not use the Vanilla Doom scroll texture left line type (48). It would make no difference in this case. The other two are both Boom floor lowering line type 221, which in this case could both be replaced with Vanilla Doom line type 23 to achieve the same effect. Why lose Vanilla compatibility for such minor things?

[Solarn]

I'm glad that you find the ammo/health balance good. That was one of my major worries. Thanks for the heads up about linedef 621. I checked it and the mistake was left over from when the editor randomly decided that it bordered Sector 6. You're right about the unnecessary non-Vanilla compatibility, I removed it. As for the door tracks, unpegging the lower textures on them solved the problem.

Yes, I noticed that the red skull key was too close to the trigger line, I hope I fixed that too. And you're right that the chainsaw doesn't need to be in that secret room, since it's only available after the big fight anyway. The rockets are useful in the final fight though, at least I think so.

Right now, I'm making another part of the map, possibly the direct continuation of this one. But I'd like to ask two specific questions about this one. First, what do you think about the placement of the super shotgun? In UV, it's right there at the start because you're going to need it against the horde of demons, and on the easy difficulties, it's right before the first Hell Knight, but I'm worried that it might be too far away in Hurt Me Plenty, since you basically have to weather the onrush of the demons in the cave without it. And second, are the invulnerability globe and soul sphere in the underground hall even needed in UV?

[Solarn]

Double post ahoy! Half of my second map is complete, it's already a lot bigger than the first one (though I'm planning on expanding that with an outdoor area when I get some inspiration for that). It begins right where the first one ended. I'm way too tired to playtest it though, other than verify that it does indeed work in ZDoom and all the doors and stuff work as they should. So I'm asking for someone to go through it on at least UV difficulty and tell me where I should tweak the balance and what boneheaded errors I left in the map.






Sendspace link is here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/c5d4dh
It's in the map02 slot, since I'm planning on making a few (maybe two or three) more levels and then merging them into one wad.

Please give me some reviews, because I need to know what people think of my maps to improve them.

Also, good lord, did I spend too much time in Doom Builder. Just now I was trying to use my mouse's trackwheel to make the screen smaller so I could see more of it.

EDIT: Fixed an ugly clipping error, a wall texture and an oversight that gave the player both the Shotgun and the Super Shotgun in the beginning area

EDIT 2: Fixed a bunch of switches that didn't want to work (they might still not), another few textures, a few oversights on my part that made the level not work as I wanted it to and made the skylights in the great hall a little larger.

EDIT 3:There are screenshots.

EDIT 4: Finally fixed the switches in the catacomb hub room and some misaligned textures in the start/end area.

EDIT 5: Redone the great hall, hope it doesn't look so empty now.

EDIT 6: The map is FINISHED, except for possible bugfixes and maybe a new ending area. And it's HUGE compared to my first map (which I might just keep the way it is, because it's a nice short map 1 to this humongous map 2).

EDIT 7: Fixed the secret in the hellish pit area because I'm a genius and forgot to add a teleporter target. Or the item that's the reason for the secret in the first place.

[Solarn]

The second map is finished, I fixed some nasty gameplay errors that I inadvertently left in there, and I merged the two maps into one wad file. The download is in the first post. I also have new screenshots of both maps.

[Solarn]

The very bare beginning of the third map is complete. It's a pretty small first area, but I'd like to hear feedback on it from people, whether it's any good, what stupid mistakes I made, and most importantly, if I should go with this theme for the rest of the level. So please play it and post your opinions here.

Sendspace: http://www.sendspace.com/file/1wu3fb

[suicidal pencil]

I found that you could have used a bit more ammo in the first level. Not much though. (I ended up in a fist fight with a revenant for the yellow skull key)

[Kyka]

Played through Map 01. Nice work. Must admit that I wasn't totally taken with how square the start few rooms are. Made me wonder if the entire map was going to suffer from "wolfenstein syndrome".

But it turned out to be an enjoyable little map. The health and ammo was just about right. As suicidalpencil said, perhaps too little ammo. I was forced to go fisticuffs with one of the two final barons, as well as a few of the lost souls in the final area.

Though bear in mind, you might wanna remove a little of the health if you put more ammo in. I would have said there was too much health on the level if not for the fists v baron in a tight area, which cost me a bunch of health.


The only visual fault that I would change is that between linedefs 395 and 380, as well as between linedefs 382 and 597. (These are the linedefs on the corner of the yellow key room with the revenant guard behind the bar, and the connecting corridor. The marble "bricks" dont line up on those two corners)

Anyway, its a decent effort. Perhaps you could make the first little series of square rooms a little less wolfenstein-like. Otherwise a pretty good start.

Keep it up.

P.S. Haven't played map 2 yet, will get to it soon.

[Death-Destiny]

suicidal pencil said:

I found that you could have used a bit more ammo in the first level. Not much though. (I ended up in a fist fight with a revenant for the yellow skull key)

Agreed. Even with utilizing reasonable infighting and exhausting all my ammo, there still wasn't enough ammo to avoid tysoning at least something (either a Baron or a group of weaker enemies most likely). What I'd do is replace the Invulnerability with a a berserk pack, since you were worried that the invulnerability was unnecessary anyway and it would make the invariable tyson fight more efficient and less tedious (This way, you address two concerns with one change! Yay for efficiency! =D)

Also, if you're playing the map for the first time and kill everything up to the Baron near the rocket launcher prior to getting the key needed to advance, upon backtracking, you will probably run out of shells before getting the first key and have to tyson/pistol snipe a Hell Knight, which I doubt was your intention. Maybe another 12 or some other arbitrary number of shells more at the start could help avoid this.

[suicidal pencil]

Played through the first level again. I found that you can stretch out the ammo, but only if you make everything in-fight. IE: let Souls fight each other, let a baron kill a few demons, or let a revenant's fireball hit a baron, etc.

Played through Map 01. Nice work. Must admit that I wasn't totally taken with how square the start few rooms are. Made me wonder if the entire map was going to suffer from "wolfenstein syndrome".

My thoughts exactly.

About second room in, I thought aloud: "Great. Small, square, and dark rooms for me to navigate. Joy."

I was proven wrong =) nice work!

[Solarn]

Thank you all for the feedback. Just to make sure, you did pick up all the ammo, correct? Including the shells near the walls of the cavern? And even that way, you were running out of ammo in the end? I'll have to fix that. I'll try to make the first few rooms less Wolfenstein-like too, though I'm terribly afraid I'll screw them up.

EDIT: Link in first post updated with a few cosmetic improvements, health/ammo balance tweaking and fix of the misaligned texture, all in level 1.

[Solarn]

Map03, Interdimensional Fortress is finally done! It's the largest map yet and takes a lot of time to load on my computer. I may have gone a little insane with this one, I took every idea I had for a "wood and metal with lots of sky" themed map and tried to make a coherent whole out of it. Please tell me if I succeeded or not. Also, please tell me how I can make the two Arch-Viles on UV behind the marble walls in the area after the red door not notice the player after the first shot.

Sendspace link: http://www.sendspace.com/file/r5onc9

I'm planning on making one level after this one, after that, I'm declaring this complete except for map names and music. I have an idea for an Episode 1 themed map I want to try.

[AveryMaurice]

*Examines Screenshots*

Looks good, ill try it out. However, your choices in wall textures seem repetive and often are almost identicals to the ceiling textures. Good for your first wad though.

Keep up the good work.

[hawkwind]

Solarn said:

It's been tested in ZDoom, but theoretically it should be Boom compatible.

As for map 3, no. The player is stuck in the wall at the start. I suggest moving the player to the next step on the right. Interestingly, looking at this in DoomBuilder you will notice that the bounding box would suggest that it is ok as it is. Using DeepSea however, the bounding box renders into sector 9.

When player teleports to sector 466, the player is trapped. Cannot open sector 467.

Is the player meant to be trapped at sectors 476, 477 etc ?

Lines 7088, 7076 etc need a Y alignment.

Lines 8377, 7990 ( lines 7993,8171 ok ) need Y alignment.

Sky texture on lines 8947, 2933 and 2522 just looks YUCK !

The exit might be a bit hard to find. I had to use and editor to find it.

[Craigs]

I gotta say, this is looking pretty cool so far. You're learning at an insane pace. :P

[Solarn]

hawkwind said:

As for map 3, no. The player is stuck in the wall at the start. I suggest moving the player to the next step on the right. Interestingly, looking at this in DoomBuilder you will notice that the bounding box would suggest that it is ok as it is. Using DeepSea however, the bounding box renders into sector 9.

When player teleports to sector 466, the player is trapped. Cannot open sector 467.

Is the player meant to be trapped at sectors 476, 477 etc ?

Lines 7088, 7076 etc need a Y alignment.

Lines 8377, 7990 ( lines 7993,8171 ok ) need Y alignment.

Sky texture on lines 8947, 2933 and 2522 just looks YUCK !

The exit might be a bit hard to find. I had to use and editor to find it.

I moved the player start a little to the right. Also, I put a teleporter in the rectangle enclosed by the raised platform to the right of the starting tower, so it isn't a death trap.

Sector 467 was an oversight, I forgot to make it a door, thank you for warning me.

Yes, sectors 476 etc are meant to be traps, it's again a case of me forgetting to implement them completely. They're supposed to be crushers. I fixed that too, hopefully.

Lines 7088 etc are perfectly aligned at the start and move out of alignment as you lower the metal walls blocking the way up. I could lower unpeg them, but then they'd look awful when they're being lowered, so I just replaced them with metal textures.

I properly aligned lines 8377, 7990 and their counterparts in the three other similar rooms.

The sky texture was an oversight again, I fixed it.

I made the exit a bit larger, as it really was too hard to find.

Thank you all for the feedback.

[gggmork]

I quite enjoyed map 02. Lots of creative actions happening instead of just being static rooms as in many doom maps. Everything was unique and fun. Also I found uv difficulty fun and relatively challenging. One place with mancubuses near a center warp had lava damage tagged where it shouldn't be probably. One part you hit a switch and a small pillar comes down with a baron; might be better if that pillars ceiling was raised so the monster doesn't come out of the ceiling.

Map 03 looks quite interesting but search for linedef number 616. It is unswitchable in prboom plus. That's because there's a doom bug or something that makes you unable to activate lines if there's another activatable line right in front of it (see the two green lines right together, just make the first line a normal line with no action) I think (it is actually still switchable but you can only barely do it from the side). You might want to test your maps with prboom plus instead of zdoom or whatever because that will give the best compatibility test probably.

[Solarn]

gggmork said:

I quite enjoyed map 02. Lots of creative actions happening instead of just being static rooms as in many doom maps. Everything was unique and fun.

Map 03 looks quite interesting but search for linedef number 616. It is unswitchable in prboom plus. That's because there's a doom bug or something that makes you unable to activate lines if there's another activatable line right in front of it (see the two green lines right together, just make the first line a normal line with no action) I think (it is actually still switchable but you can only barely do it from the side). You might want to test your maps with prboom plus instead of zdoom or whatever because that will give the best compatibility test probably.

Thanks for that. I set Zdoom as the executable for testing maps in DB for whatever reason so I completely forgot to check it in PrBoom+

EDIT: Are you sure it was 616? I checked and there's a non-activatable linedef in front of it. Also, is it the only one with that bug?

[gggmork]

line 287's action prevents line 616 from working, at least i think. i havn't played the rest of the map yet
its near a rocket launcher. just test it w/ prboom+ and you'd probably see that switch doesn't work.

[Solarn]

gggmork said:

line 287's action prevents line 616 from working, at least i think. i havn't played the rest of the map yet
its near a rocket launcher. just test it w/ prboom+ and you'd probably see that switch doesn't work.

Thanks. Hmm... it does. I'll have to fix that. And there are probably other lines like that too, I'll have to go over the entire map.

EDIT: I updated the file. I think I got them all, but right now I don't have time for playing through the map. Please tell me if I missed anything so I can fix it when I get back.

[gggmork]

That switch works now. 3 seems to have bugs; seems to be an extra yellow key, you can run up to the cyber area without lowering the walls, seems you can fall off the side of the cyber area into an inescapable perimeter, couldn't figure out how to beat it, and a couple warp lines weren't obvious they were warps.

[hawkwind]

More map 03 ...

Drop from sector 9 to sector 54 - south - and quickly look towards sector 53 - sky.

Also why not have sector 43 immediately change to MFLR8_2 after activating the switch at line 0 ? It will look more realistic.

[Solarn]

gggmork said:

That switch works now. 3 seems to have bugs; seems to be an extra yellow key, you can run up to the cyber area without lowering the walls, seems you can fall off the side of the cyber area into an inescapable perimeter, couldn't figure out how to beat it, and a couple warp lines weren't obvious they were warps.

The extra yellow key is a result of the level taking so long that I forgot I already put in one; there was supposed to be a switch there. That entire area is incomplete, now that I look at it. As for the cyber area, I tried to make it so you can't run up to it without lowering the walls, I hope I succeeded now. I thought I made the edges of the cyber area impassable, I guess I forgot that too. For warp lines that aren't obvious, that's mostly deliberate.

hawkwind said:

More map 03 ...

Drop from sector 9 to sector 54 - south - and quickly look towards sector 53 - sky.

Also why not have sector 43 immediately change to MFLR8_2 after activating the switch at line 0 ? It will look more realistic.

I don't know what I could do about the sky thing. I made it that way so sector 52 lowers to the correct height, but it does look a bit weird until it reaches its destination.

How could I make sector 43 change its floor texture before arriving at its final height? That could help with the problem with sector 52 too if I knew that.

[hawkwind]

Map 03 ...

A simple fix for the "sky thing" would be to move the "sector" - lines 604, 607 , etc. 1 or 2 map units to the left, and fix the area where it was. An added advantage would be where line 604 was is you could have a translucent mid texture for the BFALL texture ( on front side of linedef ).

I don't think there is an ideal fix for the other issue. Maybe make it a turbo sector ? It would then be less noticeable.

[Solarn]

hawkwind said:

Map 03 ...

A simple fix for the "sky thing" would be to move the "sector" - lines 604, 607 , etc. 1 or 2 map units to the left, and fix the area where it was. An added advantage would be where line 604 was is you could have a translucent mid texture for the BFALL texture ( on front side of linedef ).

I don't think there is an ideal fix for the other issue. Maybe make it a turbo sector ? It would then be less noticeable.

The problem is that part of sector 52 needs to be next to a ceiling of that height to lower properly. If I move it from there, it won't lower.

[esselfortium]

Solarn said:

The problem is that part of sector 52 needs to be next to a ceiling of that height to lower properly. If I move it from there, it won't lower.

Draw a square somewhere off in the void next to your map. Now trace a triangle over half of it, so you've got two triangular sectors connected to each other. Join sector 52 with one of the triangular sectors, and set the other triangle's ceiling height to whatever you need sector 52 to lower to.

[Solarn]

esselfortium said:

Draw a square somewhere off in the void next to your map. Now trace a triangle over half of it, so you've got two triangular sectors connected to each other. Join sector 52 with one of the triangular sectors, and set the other triangle's ceiling height to whatever you need sector 52 to lower to.

...

Thanks.
How the hell did I not think of this?

EDIT: Done it.

[hawkwind]

So I thought to give maps 1 and 2 a road test ...

Nothing to report re map 1.

Map 2 however ...

1) Lines 140, 142, 672 and 675 not lower unpegged.

2) Line 2188 needs a Y offset of -16.

3) Ceiling of sector 330 has RROCK05. Ceiling of sectors 341,340 and 458 have RROCK07. Different "timed" animation. Intentional ?

4) It would be a good idea to make lines 2429, 2428 etc. impassible since in easy skill the Caco can pass though the midbars3 texture. And if player uses jump ...

5) Sector 346 is a damaging sector. Intentional ?

6) If the player is careless, can get trapped in sector 239.

7) It is possible for the player to be at sector 105 WITHOUT having obtained the red key, making progress in the level impossible ( line 912 ). This is the main issue !

8) IMO it would look better if sector 89 had the floor flat CEIL5_2.

9) IMO it would have looked better if the floor flats for sectors2, 3 and 4 were FLOOR5_3.