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DOOM: The Gathering

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Gez: Yes, and no. The backwards spoken phrase with his name in it lends his noggin some tangibility I think. Also, I believe it's the damage you deal to the head that actually kills the Icon of Sin regardless, even if you don't cheat to get up in there where the head actually is.

In any case, I just thought it'd be a fun kind of thing to do, have the extremely powerful Icon of Sin card completely dependent on the survival of Romero's pathetic 0/1 card.

Lord Z:
Hero Quest rules! I've still got that monster box, with all those great mini plastic Skeletons, Chaos Warriors, Orcs, Goblins, etc. under my bed. My younger brother and I had some fun with that game back in the day.

I actually made a Heretic WAD of the game board years ago (all the rooms, hallways, etc). My intent was to model every map in the game book (14 of 'em I think?) and make an episode out of, but laziness set in and it never got done. Korvus journeys to Barak Tor to battle the Witch King (D'Sparil?), or something . . .

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I used to play Hero Quest quite a bit as well. I still have almost everything from the game aside from a Chaos Warrior and a Skeleton which have sadly disappeared over time :(
It was always fun playing as the evil Wizard guy (can't remember his name) and just spell blast the pants off the heroes.

MmM said...
My intent was to model every map in the game book (14 of 'em I think?) and make an episode out of, but laziness set in and it never got done.

Sounds really cool. I definitely would have liked to see it.

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Yeah, Hero Quest was the bomb. I think the evil wizard dude you're thinking of is the Witch Lord/King. Did you know there were some mission packs/modules for Hero Quest? One of my older brother's friends had one, it had new enemies like wolves in it (I think they were molded in light blue plastic). I never saw them in the store myself though.

I don't think I have that Heretic Hero Quest board WAD anymore, I'll have to look.

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MmM said...
...it had new enemies like wolves in it...

Really? I knew there were some expansion packs but I did not think they added new guys. That would be neat to have.

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Well, I did me some digging, and it turns out I made more of those Quake MTG cards than I thought:


Lord Z:I looked in my Heretic folder, and I'm afraid I don't have the Hero Quest WAD anymore. The only two Heretic WADs I have left are my unfinished Splatterhouse and Resident Evil 1 mansion WADs (I guess I like to make everything and anything BUT Heretic-themed Heretic levels). But, I did drag out my Hero Quest box and . . .

(I didn't paint the Hero Quest miniatures, my younger brother did, so if anybody doesn't like the way they look, it's not my fault.)

While I was looking through the HQ box, I did find a flyer that advertised two modules, both of those just came with either extra undead (skeletons, zombies, and mummies) or humanoid critters (fimirs, orcs, and goblins). The one I was talking about previously was completely different from those two--it must have been released later.

Oh, and maybe the wizard you were thinking of is Zargon? He's the character the DM is supposed to represent, I had forgotten all about him, that's why I thought you meant the Witch Lord.

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Painting the pieces eh? Not a bad idea, that would spice up the game a bit. I should have thought about doing that...

Too bad about the WAD not existing but I'm sure they could be rebuilt with some fresh initiative :)

I'm not entirely sure of the wizards name but you get that board with all the stats of the different monsters and can cast spells. I loved being that guy.

The Quake cards look great by the way.

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Hey, What block have you guys been playing from?

Mirroden, Kamigawia, Ice Age, Revised.... Beta???

The reason why I ask, is because there are some crazy new cards out in Shards of Alara.

I don't know, but I think MTG has changed alot, especially when you compare to your card examples.

All I am trying to do is place what block or set you guys are focusing around.

Oh and also
That's the color wheel that you were referring to, that had specific traits to specific colors.

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I'm sure MTG has all sorts of new stuff since I last played seriously, which was many years ago. I think Ice Age was what was out when I made my cards, and whatever the heck that one is called with all the Slivers.

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when it comes to the cards i have you all beat in term of them being done i just need to some how get the program i have from one computer on to this one so i can show u guys

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Those cards are still stellar, especially if they were made a decade ago. I'd love to take the cards and program it into a free computer game.

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I'm not sure if I should still post here or make a new topic, but I made the basic system for a computer DoomTG. The cards, the decks, the hands, the players and play styles. With all of MnM's original cards and new Doom III monsters (and weapons), the card total is 85. There is nothing to show yet, just programming language and the databases.

I watched the MTG getting started videos on their site and cloned their play styles. Red, black, white, green, blue and ?? yellow ??.

White play styles summon bunches of zombies. Green play styles summon marines and greater zombies. Red play styles summon greater demons, while black play styles summon lesser demons. Blue play styles rely on weapons (Sorcery), and yellow play styles are a mixed bag of everything.

There can also be random play styles that create their own blend of what they want to use. Computer players can be generated randomly with their own play styles.

Decks are based on the play styles :-) MTG's website says a deck is usually 60 cards. Here is a print out so far; and instead of printing out all 60 cards, I'm cutting the list down to 10.

Collective vs Chubbs

Collective has a white play style, which means lesser zombies to swarm. Chubbs has a green play style which means greater zombies.

Collective's Deck
1 :: Collective :: Flaming Zombie
2 :: Collective :: Chain Gunner
3 :: Collective :: Mars
4 :: Collective :: Former Sergeant
5 :: Collective :: Flaming Zombie
6 :: Collective :: Nuclear Plant
7 :: Collective :: Chainsaw Zombie
8 :: Collective :: Seeker
9 :: Collective :: Chainsaw Zombie
10 :: Collective :: Grosse

Chubb's Deck
1 :: Chubbs :: Z-Sec
2 :: Chubbs :: Former Human
3 :: Chubbs :: Command Control
4 :: Chubbs :: Space Marine
5 :: Chubbs :: Z-Sec
6 :: Chubbs :: Toxin Refinery
7 :: Chubbs :: Former Sergeant
8 :: Chubbs :: Former Sergeant
9 :: Chubbs :: Chain Gunner
10 :: Chubbs :: Former Sergeant

Instead of double posting the hell out of this, I am just adding onto it.

The game now plays itself (unfortunately the player does not play it yet). Computer randomly selects 2 computer players that face off using 3 types of cards (so far):
- lands
- creatures
- weapons

I've seen plenty of games, the shortest I've seen has been 8 rounds, the longest has been 21 where the Mancubus, Arch-Viles and Barons of Hell come out.

Creatures (or computer players controlling them) are smart enough to defend their masters from being attacked.

The computer players are smart enough to second guess attacks, such as if player A has 2 Lost Souls and player B has 1 Baron of Hell. Player A will second guess attacking player B, because 2 Lost Souls are no match for 1 Baron of Hell.

Players are smart enough that when one player has a flying creature out, the other player will put out flying creatures or just use a weapon strong enough to blast them out of the air.

Because it would take too much space to post an entire battle, I will just post a round from the print out (print out is not the final product and it is just for me to see what it does):



Collective draws a card:
0 :: Collective :: Stimpack :card: 109
Collective has no land to set out.
Collective taps land for a total of:
for a total of:
Z-Sec attacks Crysta
Crysta defends with Grosse
Z-Sec does 2 damage to Grosse
Grosse does 1 damage to Z-Sec
Grosse dies
Z-Sec survives the attack
Collective takes turn:

Crysta draws a card:
0 :: Crysta :: Shotgun :card: 31
Crysta has no land to set out.
Crysta taps land for a total of:
for a total of:
Crysta takes turn:
Crysta sets out: Shotgun
Shotgun attacks Collective
Collective defends with Z-Sec
Shotgun does 2 damage to Z-Sec
Z-Sec dies


Being that I've never ever played MTG before and I'm just watching tutorial videos, I just learned you are supposed to stack your deck. I have found 2 official MTG video tutorials that contradict one another on minor things like first player does not get to pick a card when the game is started and another video that says different.


The only real thing to update is the game's intelligence and Cybernator seems to be undefeatable. I spent time implamenting block rules that I learned from yet another promotional vidieo. Such as when a creature attacks, it cannot block the player from an attack.

Red mana and any mana are now Mars mana and Earth mana. I have not made use of "any" mana yet, but that's a frill I will get to later.

There are still bugs:
- Player uses sorcery (weapons) to try and kill creatures that the weapons cannot kill.
- Sometimes simple things like Seekers, Forgotten Ones, Lost Souls can block and take down Demons, Nightmare Imps and so on.

Watching the computers sim through battles in the printout, I've seen an entire hand of flaming zombies (burnies), which has been amusing. Battles with Cybernator don't last long. Usually 6-9 rounds. He uses Hell's big creatures. Maybe he crushes everyone so quickly because the sorcery is still buggy.


The game is getting more advanced, such as Guardians now require at least one Seeker visible to attack. Seekers don't attack (or maybe they should) like they do not attack in DOOM3 (right?).

The fun thing is the game looks for keywords in the card's text like requires at least 1 seeker. Game looks for the word requires, then at least (at most / only), then 1 (or any number), then seeker (or any card with the name). This just makes it easier to make cards and it will make it easy for mods. Sorcery also reads the text on the card for what to attack. Words like weapon, multiple creatures, player. single creature. This is all for flexability when writing cards.

The AI is getting a lot smarter and stacks the deck with a strategy based on aggression.

There is now a very simple GUI that is sleek, unspecial, but not lame. The GUI shows a health bar, printout of the game action, a view of the cards each player has in their hand, what cards are set out, and what is remaining in the deck.

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The rules may have changed since I've played (which has been years), but I believe it is correct for the first player not to draw a card in MTG. Going first is an advantage (as it is in many games), skipping that first card draw is meant to even things up a bit.

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Magic question:
With sorcery... if it is an attack does it ALWAYS attack the other player (like a creature) or can you select who you attack with it? Should it say on the card?

I have the system right now to intelligently use the sorcery (weapons) like if the player has a pistol and the other player has a demon and a lost soul out to block, a pistol will not kill a demon, so the player choses to keep his pistol for fear the other player will defend with a demon.

If the player using the sorcery were to chose which creature to attack, then the player could chose to attack the lost soul.

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I believe a spell card will specifically indicate whether the target can be a creature, player, land, etc., or some combination of targets. For example, something like "Tap, deal two damage to target creature or player." So, yeah, it should say on the card to avoid any confusion. A card that can target both players/creatures would probably cost more to cast that a card that only targeted one or the other. Sometimes they can only target a creature of a specific strength level or type (i.e., send target creature with a combined attack/defense power of 6, or less, to the graveyard, or deal two damage to all zombies in play). Making a card very specific, and thus, decreasing its usefulness, is one way to justify lowering its casting cost.

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That did clear up a lot. Just make your own rules per weapon :-)

What about if a player shoots a weapon at another player. Can that player use a creature to block it?

Or would I have to say on the card, "weapon against player, cannot be blocked by creatures."

I just made a GUI for the game, simple, ugly, but you see everything. I also have implamented card strategies based on the style of player. I had basic strategies, but now that I know you can stack the deck, each play style will intelligently stack their deck.

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Are we still talking about Magic? In Magic, when creatures attack, a target cannot be chosen. You declare your attacking creatures, and the defending player will choose creatures to block each attacking creature or to just take the damage from any of those creatures.

Unless a spell has the text "target creature or player" or "target creature", you can't chose to attack a creature. If it says "target creature or player" or "target player", then you may target the player directly.

You might want to learn how the game works, even play a couple games, before you start working on a Magic: The Gathering clone. It'll really give you ideas on how you can adapt the game for your own purposes. Whatever you do, though, make sure the wording is simple, yet consistent between each card.

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Yeah, the defender gets to pick, which, if any, of his/her creatures block your attacking monsters. Let's say you attack me with a Revenant and I had a Mancubus out, I could choose to block the Revenant with it, or I could take the hit directly to my life points--you have no control over it, other than initiating the attack. Also, not every monster can block (or attack for that matter), and normal monsters usually can't block flying ones (the card will indicate if a monster can't block, can block flyers, is unblockable, etc). Spells can generally be pointed at specific targets, but not normal monster attacks (special monster abilities, on the other hand, can often be used on specific targets of the players choice--say, tapping, or untapping, one of the other player's monsters or lands). Note, that, as I've said before, I haven't played MTG in years, so some of these rules may no longer apply or have been changed.

I agree with Earthquake that you should really get a better grip on the rules before you try designing a deck/cards. You'll save yourself a lot of grief and confusion in the long run. MTG can get extremly convoluted, particularly if there's a lot of spell flinging, enchantments, etc. going on almost simultaneously in a match.

Most importantly, make your cards fair. Don't create some uber 9/9 monster that only costs two mana to play (unless it has very severe consequences for doing so--like requiring the sacrifice of all your other monsters AND causing you to lose ten life every turn that it's in play). Basing your cards on existing ones, in terms of abilities/cost is what I would recommend. You can use the same stats and just change the name of the creature and the artwork. Also be aware that certain colors tend to exhibit certain traits and not others--try not to turn a color into a "be all" of all card types.

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Thanks for the advice both EarthQuake and MnM.

There are only fair cards, because I have 6 players set up with different styles (mentioned before). Computer sims through, if I see one player having an OVERWHELMING dominance, then something is wrong and I tweak it. I'd rather have people play the game than be pissed off with it (or me).

So far, mars mana is far better for creatures and earth mana is far better for weapons. That will probably change slightly. Earth mana doesn't have that many creatures (but I'm not through assigning stats for creatures). I rearranged all of the creature stats because there are more creatures.

I never even thought of creature sacrifice :-) Like in order to bring forth a Sabboth, a human should need to be sacrificed :-)

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A nice site I found with a minuet or two of searching.

A good place to learn about the various traits and how they are connected to colors.

I looked at some MTG videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC4NyO1gUqU \\The content here sucks and is over simplified... and even confusing at times imo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAAPmbZVErY \\ Good content, but dry... very dry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkxEkm8FZu4 \\ Good as well, but also very dry.

I agree with NmN and Earth Quake, you should try going to a local shop in your town and playing the game there, just ask around there for some assistance in learning and you should be golden :P. Playing will really help put it all together in your head.

Im not 100% on this, but I think a Turn goes like this:
-Instants, Effects

-Instants, Effects

-Instants, Effects

Main Phase
-Sorcery, Instant, Effects

Combat step
--Declare Attacking
---Instant, Effects
--Declare Attackers
---Instant, Effects
--Declare Blockers
---Instant, Effects
--Assign Damage
---Instant, Effects
--Deal Damage
---Instant, Effects

Main Phase II
-Sorcery, Instant, Effects

End Turn
-Instant, Effects

//What I mean by Instant cards, are cards that can be played at any time.
//What I mean by Effects, are things that are activated during that part of the turn, such as "During your untap step you may tap target creature."

Also remember that cards are VERY specific...
In example:
"(cost)3tap:(Effect)Tap target creature"
This is way different from:
"(cost)3tap:(Effect)Tap target opponents creature during his next untap phase"

I hope this helps :P
Oh yeah, forgot to give a bit of a heads up on the stack.
Basically every card has a speed class at which it can be casted at.

--Static Ability
(Pay for the card, and it keeps on ticking)[Usually enchantments or even artifacts]
--Activated Ability(pay a cost for it each time you use it)
--Sorcery, Land, Creature

The stack follows the basic rule where you play a spell of a certain speed and then the opponent can respond with an equal speed or faster. When the stack Resolves, it goes "last in, first out"

I hope I helped you and didn't just make muddy water.

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That is the site to view the current version of the game. It is not a download, just online for now. You cannot play the game, just sim through the game watching 2 computer players. This way, I am not all talk :-)

Since the game is stuck in a browser when it was intended to be a stand alone .exe the file shrinks or expands to the size of the browser window, so everything looks be scrunched.

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Took a quick few sample games, and from what I have seen from purely looking at the win/loss ratio, that cybernator is the trump right now.

Still interesting though... I'm liking the looks of it, keep going man! you have me very excited!

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Feedback! Yay! The Cybernator pretty much always wins, just because he's creature oriented and there are no sorcery / instants / and so on for the others to compensate.

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Making a Doom version of MtG sounds like a great idea!

With the right programming it could turn out to be a cool computer game. I think it could even be turned into a more original game (inspired on MtG, but with different card layout and rules).

If someone seriously wants 'gather' a team to do this, I will be happy to help out with the art-work.

some of my work:

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I am rethinking the Doom Computer Gathering. People's imagination is not easy to simulate.

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