How to get drunk without drinking

[40oz]

I'm trying to understand how this works. Apparently, Derren tells the guy to describe the feeling of drinking alcohol. Every single sensation is referred to. Then the movie kinda fast-forwards, I guess he's getting him to repeat the feeling.

Later on, he associates those feelings with a certain word. Then everytime he sees the word in text, he is instantly drunk. I'm a little confused about the significance of giving him the kebab, i dunno if that had anything to do with the original word.

I'm extremely interested in seeing how this works. I'm sure you would need to know how it feels to have been drunk once before in order to determine the feeling merely with thought. Like for example, I don't know what it's like to shoot heroin, so it's probably impossible for me to understand what that is like.

Would I need someone to ask me how it feels to drink in order to recreate the effect? Can I do this by myself? Am I allowed to associate a word of my own choosing to do this? I really am gonna try to figure this out.

[VileSlay]

it's just a form of hypnosis. heh, if you want to get drunk without drinking try giving yourself a wine enema. use a cheap one. no need to waste a good wine up your ass.

[40oz]

Umm. It's not the fear of drinking that concerns me, its my interest in getting the sensation of being drunk when alcohol is not always available.

[John Smith]

Is it just me or is the idea of trying to get drunk without alcohol not a necessarily good thing. Lit like a goddamn christmas tree maybe, that sounds good, but full on drunk does not sound like my idea of a good time. Especially when this drunkness does not involve alcohol.

[Death-Destiny]

This is a form of hypnosis. I've heard of hypnotists who can cause people to do all kinds of strange things, from acting like chickens, making girls take their clothes off, and causing people to remember long surpressed memories and changing their behavioral patterns.

In this demo, the hypnotist causes the person to associate the feeling of drunkenness with a word, though it could have been anything. This is a form of classical conditioning and is present in many animals (for instance, if the timer on your oven beeps, you might start salivating because it reminds you of food, even if you can't smell it. Same sort of thing here, except a visual cue.) You would already have to know what being drunk feels like, though, since hypnosis draws on the stored memories of the sensations, smells, and tastes of that experience.

One way I can dexcribe it is that it's like dreaming, where you can't distinguish between reality and falsehood, and where your mind has access to things you normally wouldn't think about. Hypnosis kind of simulates this priniple, like "dreaming" while you're awake. Hypnosis is the art of controlling one's subjective experience. Actually being hypnotized is very difficult (you'd probaly need a pro to do it for you or else study it some) and some people are very vulnerable while others aren't (I've been hypnotized numerous times, to little or no effect.)
Hypnosis is a powerful tool, but the associations the mind can form are hard to break. Like having a phobia of spiders (which arbitrarily causes fear upon sight), causing yourself to be drunk upon seeing a particular word, which you may see in a number of contexts in which you need to be attentive, is quite frankly a very stupid thing to do, since you would probably have to use psychological techniques to break the illusion if given a quality hypnosis to begin with. Such associations become "hard-coded" into your mind, if you will, and are difficult to remove. There are a number of studies on similar principles where psychologists forced associations on people to control they're behavior, such as a famous experiment where a child was startled by a load noise everytime he tried to play with a white mouse, and was thereafter afraid of all white, furry things because he associated the feeling of fear with white things instead of the sound.

[Edit]Forgive me if I explained this poorly. It's kinda hard to explain. I hope you get the gist of it, though. =S[/Edit]

[40oz]

Thanks for the info Death-Destiny. :)

I wonder if it would be smarter to associate a word (or even a picture/logo of some sort) to being buzzed, not actually piss-drunk to the point where you can't control your laughter or even walk upright for that matter, that incident in the library looked pretty embarrassing in the video. Well... not to him, being trashed and all. He probably felt pretty silly later though.

I'm just intrigued on how simple this guy made it look. He needed nothing more than to just ask the guy what it was like to be drunk, and draw attention to every feeling. Is it all just a matter if I had a few glasses of wine and recorded everything about it I love, then recited those exact feelings (while imagining it simultaneously) in absolute detail numerous times with my eyes closed, is that all I need to get drunk at any time? I'm trying to look up resources that might help me achieve that.

[GreyGhost]

John Smith said:

Is it just me or is the idea of trying to get drunk without alcohol not a necessarily good thing.

Sounds like a great idea to me. It's cheap - apart from the cost of the hypnotherapy - and hangovers are an optional extra. Imagine the fun you could have with traffic cops when they pull you over for a breath test. :-)

[Death-Destiny]

@JohnnyRancid: I'd recommend against hypnotizing/conditioning yourself to feel drunk. If you know how, it's a fairly simple process to accomplish this. However, keep in mind that you would not actually be buzzed/drunk, but just vividly recall what it felt like to be such. However, this would be a nostalgia-like feeling that would probably make you want to drink more every time you felt it, to actually experience the great things that the memories refer to. It's probable you'd be more likely to become an alcoholic if you did this. I can't stop you from doing this, but I'm telling you that it's a bad idea. =(

[Nick Perrin]

Read into NLP. Start with some Richard Bandler/John Grinder stuff like "Frogs into Princes." Derren Brown is an NLP whiz

[Richo Rosai]

JohnnyRancid said:

the sensation of being drunk

If you buy into this nonsense then I'd say in a way you're already part-way there.

[Creaphis]

Let's all go down to our local libraries, find introductory textbooks on social psychology, read the "hypnosis" sections of the "persuasion" chapters, and get rid of some very silly ideas.

[VileSlay]

Death-Destiny said:

This is a form of hypnosis.

like I said. just so you know, not everyone is prone to hypnosis. in fact many who fall under hypnotic suggestion are actually acting under a placebo-like effect. they want to be hypnotized so they act out in the manner the hypnotist suggests. it's liberating. you can make a fool of yourself on a stage and blame it on the hypnosis.

the power of suggestion can be a very dangerous thing. there have been several cases of hypno-therapists implanting, sometimes inadvertantly, traumaitic memories in vunerable, attention seeking patients that caused irrepairable damage to their lives.

honestly, if you want a buzz, or to get piss drunk, just og out and drink. go with friends and know your limit. if you can't control your intake, then don't drink or think about getin drunk period.

[Peanut]

JohnnyRancid said:

Umm. It's not the fear of drinking that concerns me, its my interest in getting the sensation of being drunk when alcohol is not always available.

Haha! You could always get pulled over while in that state and give the police one hell of a time! **

[40oz]

Ive spent a lot of time last night studying hypnosis. It has become so intriguing to me that I may even consider seeking a profession somewhere in the field of psychology and hypnosis.

Upon further study, these are the most interesting key points I had found:

1.) Hypnosis is essentially one's access to anothers subconcious mind.

2.) The difference between concious mind and subconcious mind is that the concious mind is focused on hands-on activities, such as solving a simple math problem. Subconcious mind is made up of actions one has learned to do automatically, such as walking upright, or riding a bike. Multitasking is a simple example one's ability to attach common household tasks to the subconcious mind.

3.) Simple forms of hypnosis can be found everywhere. Reading, Driving, Watching movies are all examples.

4.) When watching a horror movie, you will discontinue thoughts of current life affairs such as your spouse or your job. Instead, you may be concerned about the safety of the characters in the movie, even though you know it is fictional.

5.) When in a state similar to watching a movie, the subject becomes highly suggestible, as in they are much more likely to intake new concepts and ideas submissively.

6.) Deep relaxation or focusing excercises work to calm and subdue the concious mind. Imagine a scene where a boy is playing a video game, the mom is about to leave and she is giving him last minute instructions. "Dont forget to take out the trash, and remember to walk the dog, etc." and the boy repeatedly replies "Okay mom. Okay mom. Okay mom."

7.) A Hypnotism subject must have 3 traits in order to be susceptible to hypnosis:
- The subject must want to be hypnotized.
- The subject must believe in the ability to be hypnotized
- Subject must feel comfortable and relaxed

8.) This is similar to the Placebo-effect that VileSlay mentioned. When a subject is relaxed, and they let go of their stress and tension, they submit to the hypnotists sayings. The sayings are registered as fact inside the subjects subconcious mind.

9.) Hypnotism can take between a few minutes to an hour. It truly depends not so much on the hypnotists experience, but more so in the subjects willingness to surrender their concious mind. Despite the experience the hypnotist has, their ability to hypnotize relies heavily on how well they can convince their subject to go along.

10.) There are several methods of causing hypnosis

- Eye Fixation - Causing the concious mind to be subdued by distracting it with something to watch, such as the spiral, or swinging pocket watch techniques. This method is not very effective though.

- Rapid - The Hypnotist overloads the mind with sudden firm commands. Forceful commands induce intimidation on the subject and they surrender their concious mind. This is often used for entertainment purposes. Almost like stage fright.

- Progressive relaxation/imagery - Often used by psychiatrists, using a slow soothing voice to bring relaxation and focus toward the subjects memories.

I took these notes while searching various sites about hypnosis. I showed these notes to a friend of mine, and explained to her in as much detail as I could what happened in the video above. She tried it on me. I was sure hypnosis was real because it appeared so lucid in this video. She tried her best to remind me of the last time I was drunk, she asked me where I was, who was there, if there was music playing, how the drink tasted, how it felt going down my throat, how the drink smelled, the sensations going on throughout my body, etc. She also tried to associate it with a word. She wrote down the word "School" on a sheet of paper and showed it to me. I'm not sure if there was much significance so much with the word later on, but I am almost guaranteed that I felt some sort of a buzz in minutes after she did it. I became a lot more talkative, sometimes saying things I wouldn't normally say. I think my balance in walking was okay, though I did manage to get hit with some serious vertigo that almost caused me to pass out, and I listened to some music shortly after, and for some reason the music sounded a hell of a lot more exciting than usual (A trait I know I have when I am drunk).

It wasn't entirely effective, but I trusted in her and knew that hypnosis was possible, and thus I think I did manage to pick up a bit of a buzz from it. She tried doing the thing in the video, texting the same word to me later on in the day. I dont think it did anything though. I think it was the way she wrote "School" on the paper, it looked nothing like the font on my phone. I'm sure this can be done though, and I am heavily interested in learning about this so I can try it with other people.

VileSlay said:

the power of suggestion can be a very dangerous thing. there have been several cases of hypno-therapists implanting, sometimes inadvertantly, traumaitic memories in vunerable, attention seeking patients that caused irrepairable damage to their lives.

I read something similar to this last night. I can't really remember how this was executed, but the hypnotist was able to use a coffee mug as an associate to an action. The hypnotist convinced the patient to beleive that the mug did not exist. Later on the hypnotist placed the mug on top of a newspaper article and asked the patient to read the article to him. The patient read only the uncovered part of the article, with the mug cutting off some of the sentences, when the patient read it aloud, the sentences made no sense, but the patient, even when touching the mug, drew no attention the coffee mug actually existing.

Horror stories like you mentioned above are more along the lines of human experimentation, which in all fairness is wrong. I would need some heavy experience in hypnotism, as well as get a really submissive subject in order to perform something like that. I would also like to remind you that I am entirely sane. In that I have no intention, even with an ability such as hypnotism, to cause any emotional or psychological damage to anyone. If I did I would have to withdraw everything I learned and refuse to use hypnotism ever again.

My intention is based initially for entertainment purposes. Knowing about this kinda stuff might encourage me to start a "David Blaine: Street Magic" styled routine, except more on a local level rather than a jaw dropping national level. I'll be sure to stay away from attempting to recreate frightening or life changing events through hypnotism to the point that it is irreversible. I don't want to ever do any permanant damage to anyone.

[Creaphis]

I'm not going to pick apart that post, as overall your ideas seem close enough to the truth. Just remember that hypnosis is mostly placebo and social effects. As you noted, to be hypnotized, a person needs to believe that hypnosis is possible. Also, you should be aware that there is a social factor in hypnosis - people may act hypnotized because that's what the social situation calls for, even if they aren't sure that they really are hypnotized.

Also, it couldn't hurt to look at some psychological studies of hypnosis performed by psychologists who don't advocate hypnosis. Get both sides of the story, instead of just the more pseudo-scientific side which you're likely to see on the Internet. The word "subconscious" in sources should be a warning sign, as this originated in Freud's now-discredited theories, and is not currently considered in mainstream models of the mind.

JohnnyRancid said:

Horror stories like you mentioned above are more along the lines of human experimentation, which in all fairness is wrong. I would need some heavy experience in hypnotism, as well as get a really submissive subject in order to perform something like that.

Even though the "power" of hypnosis is very debatable, the planting of false memories is actually far easier than you realize. This occurs by accident all the time - we even do it to ourselves. Very early in my life, I somehow cracked my collarbone in a high-chair related accident, and for many years I could have sworn that I remembered the incident. But, it eventually came to light that every detail I remembered was completely wrong, and I would have been too young to remember anyway. The real source of this memory was my imagination; when I heard the story of this accident, I visualized it. When I heard the story another time, I remembered my old visualization, and added to it. The brain tends to remember images longer than it remembers where those images came from, so reality and unreality become confused. If you're like most people, you have a few similarly-formed false memories roaming about your skull.

If you're curious, here's an especially grievous case of the above process:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial

The investigators in this case were operating under an assumption that has since been soundly disproved by study: that the minds of children are locked boxes. They believed that the true facts of the matter could be unearthed by bombarding the children involved with questions like "Did Mr. so-and-so touch you here?" to name a mild example. In actuality, this only serves to create false memories. If a child is repeatedly asked whether some act of violence happened, and is told that said violence happened by police, teachers, parents, and everybody else, then of course he'll remember it. That doesn't mean it happened.

Not only kids are susceptible: this is a major problem in the legal system, where the testimony of witnesses of any age can be changed with leading questions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading_questions

[40oz]

Creaphis said:

people may act hypnotized because that's what the social situation calls for, even if they aren't sure that they really are hypnotized.

I think that was generally what I think I experienced. I couldn't really tell whether I was 'drunk' or not, but I really wanted to believe that it was working, so I was thinking positive about her ability to hypnotize me. In effect, I may have only taken the persona of myself last time I was drunk. However, I can't say that I didn't enjoy it, and in addition to that, being able to tell people that I had only received this feeling through hypnosis is entertaining for others. I refuse to accept the fact that it is all just a bunch of rubbish, because actually knowing that information during hypnotism will halt all beleif that I am actually becoming drunk through hypnosis, thus not actually beleiving in me being tipsy, and having to assume the role of a sober person 'acting' like he is drunk, which is difficult to do.

I'd love to try to hypnotize people, in addition to teaching people how to hypnotize me. So what if it's fake. I think it's fun, other people think it's fun, so I'll continue until unwanted consequences occur.

[SYS]

Derren Brown did a show called the Heist. Under the guise of a self improvement and Motivational seminar he successfully brain washed people into committing armed robbery. It used to be on Google video but the link isn't working.

I found this one involving zombies to be both disturbing and humorous:

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-2428437236878343763&hl=en

The drunk without drinking state is interesting. More or less it's being in a suggestive state and how well the hypnotist can get the individual to recreate the mental and bodily sensations and root them to a trigger.

Creaphis said:

Even though the "power" of hypnosis is very debatable, the planting of false memories is actually far easier than you realize. This occurs by accident all the time - we even do it to ourselves. Very early in my life, I somehow cracked my collarbone in a high-chair related accident, and for many years I could have sworn that I remembered the incident. But, it eventually came to light that every detail I remembered was completely wrong, and I would have been too young to remember anyway. The real source of this memory was my imagination; when I heard the story of this accident, I visualized it. When I heard the story another time, I remembered my old visualization, and added to it. The brain tends to remember images longer than it remembers where those images came from, so reality and unreality become confused. If you're like most people, you have a few similarly-formed false memories roaming about your skull.

You seem to be pretty good at self hypnosis for someone that's so against it whilst simultaneously downplaying it's power and credibility.

[Creaphis]

POTGIESSER said:

You seem to be pretty good at self hypnosis for someone that's so against it whilst simultaneously downplaying it's power and credibility.

Indeed. Well, what I'm essentially saying is that the brain is fallible, and malleable by others and by the self, but, it doesn't require anything that looks like "hypnosis" for the brain to be open to influence. False memories are created because the brain remembers information longer than it remembers where it got that information. False memories don't need to be the product of any "hypnotic trance," but can be planted through leading questions, and the brain will automatically confuse details and "falsify" its memories with time whether you try to influence it or not. When a hypnotized individual performs peculiar stunts on command, this is due to the individual's strong expectation to feel hypnotized, so they will automatically decide to drop their inhibitions. Hypnosis is not the only method which uses this principle to defeat inhibitions. When someone has just slightly less faith in the power of hypnosis, they may not "feel" hypnotized, but may still go along with what the hypnotist tells them due to the social pressure of the situation; he will act hypnotized because he's supposed to. Again, hypnosis is not the only thing which can cause people to behave absurdly to conform to their situation. My rejection of hypnosis is justified because it's essentially just a layer of showmanship obscuring the real psychological principles behind its effects.

[SYS]

Creaphis said:

this is due to the individual's strong expectation to feel hypnotized, so they will automatically decide to drop their inhibitions.

Ask yourself why their inhibitions are dropped? Self Hypnosis. The "hypnotist" merely guides them through the process. Strong Expectation the only reason? What about desire?

Creaphis said:

When someone has just slightly less faith in the power of hypnosis, they may not "feel" hypnotized, but may still go along with what the hypnotist tells them due to the social pressure of the situation; he will act hypnotized because he's supposed to.

Somebody who is capable of resisting hypnosis is going to act hypnotized for fear of embarrassing the hypnotist or demands of social pressure? Self liberation and paid stooges the only possible answers for the existence of hypnosis?

Creaphis said:

Indeed. Well, what I'm essentially saying is that the brain is fallible, and malleable by others and by the self, but, it doesn't require anything that looks like "hypnosis" for the brain to be open to influence.

Looks like hypnosis? Couldn't hypnosis merely serve as just a singular worded term of defining of these influences? If it looks the part but doesn't play it then what is hypnosis supposed to look like? The validity of hypnosis isn't wrong, but misconceptions and criticisms of those misconceptions are.

[40oz]

Creaphis said:

My rejection of hypnosis is justified because it's essentially just a layer of showmanship obscuring the real psychological principles behind its effects.

That's actually the same reason I'm so into it. It's so simple, I started a ruse in my school lunch today, I started by explaining to some people what hypnosis is, some people overheard and said "hey can you hypnotize me?"

I tried doing what Derren Brown here did, I asked some people if they had gotten drunk lately, where they were when they got drunk, what they drank, whether they had a good time, etc. I also had to start by asking them whether they truly beleive they can be hypnotized, ans whether they trust in my ability to hypnotize them. Acting in all seriousness, I tried to get people to submit to what I tell them by convincing them to relax, imagine themselves on a beach, etc. I began doing what Derren did by helping them describe to themselves what it's like to be drunk.

Some people claimed it worked and others didn't. Whether anyone felt they were drunk and simply just submitted to social pressure was beyond me, but I couldn't care less. I manage to pull a "David Blaine's Street Magic" gig right here in my school, I managed to get a ton of people interested. I'm a winner of the popularity contest now :)

[Creaphis]

At this point it seems that we just disagree on definition of terms. You may feel free to consider "hypnosis" as an umbrella term to include all these influences, but I have not been doing so. The "hypnosis" I've been speaking of is when a self-proclaimed "hypnotist" takes advantage of the aforementioned influences and the trust/desire of his subject to manipulate said subject into thinking certain thoughts or performing unusual deeds. This differentiates hypnosis from other situations where these influences are used to manipulate someone's thought and behaviour. When a witness' memory is altered by the questions of police, lawyers, or him/herself, I would not consider this hypnosis, nor would I consider it hypnosis when social pressure was used to cause absurd behaviour in Asch's conformity experiments.

There's no question that "hypnosis" as it is commonly defined is powerful, but this is because it combines the power of these other influences. The fact that everyone has heard of hypnosis gives the hypnotist a great deal of power, because many of these people will approach a hypnotist fully expecting to be hypnotized. I'm even willing to say that "hypnosis" is a valuable skill, as it can help people to help themselves (in some contexts), or can entertain, which is typically fun and harmless. I'm just not going to concede that hypnosis has power beyond these social and self-induced influences. There is no back door to the brain.

Good luck, Johnny. I hope to see you in Times Square in a block of ice some day.