Level editor aid to complete single player levels

[andrewwan1980]

Doom games are perfectly fine and easy to play through. Each level is self-contained. There's no way going back to a previous level, or hop back and forth. The whole gameplay is straightforward (as in progressing through each level in one direction).

Hexen on the other hand is totally different. It was the first FPS to use inventory, jumping, and classes (with attributes, strength, etc). But the biggest difference is the level hopping (not level skipping cheats). Basically, Hexen levels contain huge puzzles that require several levels to complete, so you find yourself going back and forth between 3 levels or so, just to flick some switches and grab a key.

I found Hexen puzzles quite big and find myself getting lost. So I was wondering if anyone knows Hexen speedruns or recorded demos? OR if there's map editors that highlights doors that get activated when you hover over a linedef (and vice-versa - you hover over the sector/door and it highlights the linedef required to activate it). It's okay if both linedef & sector are contained in the same level. The problem lies when they are in separate levels.

I remember Edmap does some linedef/sector highlighting. Same with Doom Builder. Any other good ones which can help show me how to complete Hexen?

[magicsofa]

My only suggestion is find a Hexen walk-through. I doubt there's any speedruns. Hexen is designed to get you lost, which a lot of people don't appreciate.

Now I'm pretty sure that inter-level stuff in hexen can only be done with scripting. The significance of this is that when you activate trigger on level X, nothing happens on level Y until you enter that level. At that point, the script probably checks the variable or whatever, and opens a door. So you have to open up the levels separately no matter what. :P

[DaniJ]

magicsofa said:

...when you activate trigger on level X, nothing happens on level Y until you enter that level. At that point, the script probably checks the variable or whatever, and opens a door. So you have to open up the levels separately no matter what.

Unless you are playing cooperatively with an engine that allows this. In which case all maps of the given hub will be loaded at once and such scripts will take effect instantly.

Note however that to my knowledge no sourceport has yet gotten to this stage but it is something that is currently in development for a future version of Doomsday.

This is actually a very interesting problem and it does throw up some design problems in the original Hexen scripts but nothing that can't be resolved.

[GreyGhost]

andrewwan1980 said:

Any other good ones which can help show me how to complete Hexen?

WadAuthor does linedef/sector highlighting provided they're in the same map. Have you read the official walkthrough or are you leaving that as a last resort?

[andrewwan1980]

I have briefly read the official (and ONLY) walkthrough in existance on the internet (for Hexen). It has no pictures and only long blocks of textual descriptive paragraphs. Though it's still big to take in and get lost so easily. I do see myself using the auto-map ALOT. I don't want to use "type-in" cheats that reveal the entire map. It would be nice if ZDoom/Skulltag/ZDaemon actually implemented some fading highlighter on automap after you hit a switch...

I assume if you play coop in Hexen, then when one exits the level, EVERYONE teleports/loads to next level. BUT yes, it's INTERESTING development to have coop-REAL-TIME mode... where two people are in different maps lol!

[Enjay]

The problem with line highlighting to try and figure out which line activates what sector, that only works when the lines and sectors are directly linked (like in Doom). A lot of the sectors in Hexen are moved using a script. So, all you would find is a line set to run a particular script, but no details of what that script did.

Some of the scripts could be quite complex, check a number of things (such as the contents of the player's inventory) and execute a number of different actions across different levels. It is, of course, possible to use decompilers to generate readable script sources.


Oh, and I'm sure other FPSs used inventories before Hexen - Heretic for one.

[Fletcher`]

Enjay said:

Oh, and I'm sure other FPSs used inventories before Hexen - Heretic for one.

Shadowcaster for another.

[andrewwan1980]

Enjay said:

<snip>
Oh, and I'm sure other FPSs used inventories before Hexen - Heretic for one.

Yeah, I hoped no one noticed ;) but yeah, Heretic (1994) was the first FPS to use throwable/weaponable inventory items then... while ShadowCaster (1993) first FPS/RPG hybrid to use inventory

[kristus]

andrewwan1980 said:

Hexen on the other hand is totally different. It was the first FPS to use inventory, jumping, and classes (with attributes, strength, etc). But the biggest difference is the level hopping (not level skipping cheats). Basically, Hexen levels contain huge puzzles that require several levels to complete, so you find yourself going back and forth between 3 levels or so, just to flick some switches and grab a key.

No it's not. Not by a long shot really.
Midwinter was an early FPS where you played over a whole world doing missions. (think a mix between Battlefield and Morrowind only 10 years earlier) You could drive vehicles and .. stuff.
Then there's the most profilic one IMO System Shock.

[andrewwan1980]

I've tried virtually all possible Hexen level editors:

DeePsea - highlights HEXEN's linedef (switch) with sector (door)
Doom Builder - highlights HEXEN's linedef (switch) with sector (door)
Slade
WadAuthor - highlights HEXEN's linedef (switch) with sector (door)
ZETH - highlights HEXEN's linedef (switch) with sector (door)

DCK, DEU/WinDEU, DoomCad, RHEU wouldn't run under DOSBox.
DETH, DMapEdit could recognise Hexen and have Hexen configs but map01 comes out garbled.
Edmap, WADED doesn't do Hexen.

None of them does any Hexen AC script interpreting. I know they're just level editors, but it would be useful if I could hover over a linedef and the editor parses the script, and highlights any sectors it references in the script.

Does anyone know if any editors do this?

[andrewwan1980]

Yeah, Doom Builder seems to be the only one with viewable scripts. Slade has an option to view scripts, but no script is loaded.. and can't seem to load any at all.

I can understand "80 - H Script Executable" with params (script no., map, args...). I then look at the script 9, etc. and it's Door_Open(const:18, 16)... which I assume means raise sector tag 18 to height 16. I then use Find Sector tag and woala! found the door!

"74 - H Teleport To Map" is sometimes used for portals.
"121 - H Line Identification" is used for portals in map02 (seven portals), which I don't understand.

[andrewwan1980]

omfg, this is driving me round the bends. Just figured out about H Line Identification:

script 43 OPEN
{
mapvar5 = 0;
mapvar6 = 0;
setlinespecial(1, 80 /*ACS_Execute*/, 39, 0, 0, 0, 0);
setlinespecial(2, 80 /*ACS_Execute*/, 40, 0, 0, 0, 0);
setlinespecial(3, 80 /*ACS_Execute*/, 41, 0, 0, 0, 0);
setlinespecial(4, 80 /*ACS_Execute*/, 42, 0, 0, 0, 0);
terminate;
}

So if a linedef has line ID 1 or 2 or 3 or 4, which executes script 39 or 40 or 41 or 42 respectively....

[CodeImp]

This is one of the reasons what UDMF is invented for. You wouldn't need to code those settings in an OPEN script, but you put them directly on the line where they belong. Just wait for DB2 ;)

[andrewwan1980]

What is UDMF? CodeImp, will DoomBuilder 2 have intelligent script parsing, so it highlights corresponding sectors with scripted linedefs? If not possible, could you have a toggle or find to highlight all linedefs with a certain type of script... etc..