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Spleen

Fuck quake. Lets do Art.

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If you go to the website of Hell Revealed 2 (a fairly popular vanilla DOOM wad for those who don't know, I see it played a lot in Skulltag), you see this message: "Fuck quake. Lets do Art." Anyone know where it came from? Google searches reveal nothing except a guy's sig on a forum. I've long wondered where this message came from and what exactly it means.

(source: http://www.doomworld.com/hr2/)

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I have no idea. But my best guess would say that it had something to do with Quake being released and having an impact on what was then the current mod community for Doom. I imagine it was some sort of credo among the Doom developers at the time who contested Quake's entrance into the FPS communities.

But that's all I got.

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It was an anti-quake movement by some Doomers, most notably Bahdko who (afaik) came up with this slogan. Chief argument was that while the engine was good, the game itself was badly made.

Fun fact: (many) years later, some id developers echoed their arguments :)

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Mordeth said:

Fun fact: (many) years later, some id developers echoed their arguments :)

Source? This is an interesting statement.

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On which game was that phrase used by former id members? Daikatana? Doom 3 even?

That "fuck Quake" slogan also appears in Wintex's startup.

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Mordeth said:

It was an anti-quake movement by some Doomers, most notably Bahdko who (afaik) came up with this slogan. Chief argument was that while the engine was good, the game itself was badly made.

Fun fact: (many) years later, some id developers echoed their arguments :)


hahaha, I remember that. The website is gone, but there were some funny pictures Bahdko posted once of the quakeguy being mauled by four marines. I think one even had the quakeguy stuffed in a toilet.

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Csonicgo said:
The website is gone, but there were some funny pictures Bahdko posted once of the quakeguy being mauled by four marines. I think one even had the quakeguy stuffed in a toilet.

It's here.

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Wow, what radicals. It's just a game. It excels in its own right. It wasn't going to kill Doom. Get a life, jeez.

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leileilol said:
Get a life, jeez.

As far as I know most of the people who were involved in that certainly moved on in various ways. It can only be judged properly from a late 90s perspective or so. So it's more like "timeline, leileilol".

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Quake started dragging on after the second hub IMO. But I have to admit its multiplayer experiences > Doom's at the time. Now this has gradually begun to change due to our superior community and moddability.

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myk said:

So it's more like "timeline, leileilol".

I had a line about a time machine in that post, but it was lost in the mists of time.

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The reason i don't like quake all that much is because the most of the levels all look and feel like the same boring castle over and over.
There is no new flavor for me to look forward to once i finish a level.

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Csonicgo said:

hahaha, I remember that. The website is gone, but there were some funny pictures Bahdko posted once of the quakeguy being mauled by four marines. I think one even had the quakeguy stuffed in a toilet.

Aren't those pictures currently archived on Doom2.org or something? I could have sworn I saw something like that over on that site.

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Lizardcommando said:
I could have sworn I saw something like that over on that site.

Liar!

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Lizardcommando said:

Aren't those pictures currently archived on Doom2.org or something? I could have sworn I saw something like that over on that site.

myk posted the link above. i remember seeing those for the first time after quake came out and people were disappointed with too much darkness, slow gameplay ("is this quake guy 70 or something"), imbalanced weapons and whatever. well, they had no clue of those "tactical shooters" yet to come. xenos' essay (link on that page) is an example of how every id game was criticized first and later evolved to gameplay very different from what people tought of it initially.

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Was there ever a similar "fuck doom, let's do art" in the Wolfenstein community?

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Gez said:

Was there ever a similar "fuck doom, let's do art" in the Wolfenstein community?


Not sure, but I seem to recall several Quake mappers using that phrase.

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printz said:
On which game was that phrase used by former id members? Daikatana? Doom 3 even


No, it was used by a then-current id employee(s) working on a next id title in some interview. Must be quake3'ish era I guess, but can't be arsed to look it up.

Like written before, you need to see this in a 90's era light, when Quake was released and there was nothing else (yet). When pointing out the imbalanced gameplay, inconsistent theming, 'playground'type levels and the overall feeling the game itself came 2nd to its engine... you were laughed at by 99.9% of the general gaming populace.

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Quake was a good game, the engine was very well done but that"s all I can say about it.Quake had way too much brown.They could have made a pretty good doom port and a sequel with the engine of course that's just my opinion...

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Quake, to me, back in the day (I.E., when I was 7 years old) was only so amazing because of the music that went with it.

I could play Doom or Quake II without music and enjoy it, but Quake.. it's just.. bleh.

Though I never even realized how over-used the brown/castle theme was used in Quake until somebody pointed it out.

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You could replace "Doom" with "Pong" and "Quake" with "Doom" in Xenos' essay, and it would actually be slightly less ridiculous.

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Right... I had forgotten you were a deathmatch expert (that may be why you generally choose DM levels to review for T/nC).

I actually agree with various things on that essay to this day, essentially. Less emphatically (Xenos' essay was pretty much a rant), however, since I've grown to value Quake's gameplay, including its DM. But I like DOOM more and to a good degree because of some of the reasons given there; especially from the 2.5D vs. 3D perspective and because of the comparative behavior of the weapons.

I remember though that on csDoom Xenos (he was a great player till he got deported from the US back to his homeland Uzbekistan, as well as the author of this WAD and a participant in the making of STRAIN) had gotten particularly good at using freelook (in like 2000 or 2001), the effectiveness of which he argues against in the essay.

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