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Wobbo

What kind of god would do that?

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Playing doom made me realize just how messed up the judao-christian religion's attitudes are towards the afterlife is.

What "loving" god would condemn ANYBODY - even hitler- to any type of ETERNAL torture. It doesnt make sense that a mere mortal living 100 years tops could cause an INFINITE amount of injustice to those around her or him, and thus deserving an INFINITE amount of punishment. Thats just wrong

but my new motto is "God hates us all" so i guess i beleive the worst is possible...

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You listen to too much Slayer. But I do have to agree with you. The whole 'eternal punishment' is a bunch of crap to keep people in line during their life.

One of my constant arguements against those who say I should believe in their god 'just in case' is this:
If their god won't let me into their 'heaven' just because I don't believe in them, yet I've been a considerate, selfless individual throughout my life, then that god doesn't deserve my worship. It's as simple as that. And if this does scentance me to eternal torture, at least its better than eternal slavery.

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If their god won't let me into their 'heaven' just because I don't believe in them

And how do you know he wouldn't?

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John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

I suppose if you don't believe in His Son and feel His wrath, then you would also feel His wrath if you don't even believe in Him either.

But I don't see how you would go to heaven if you don't believe in God. I mean... if you don't believe in God then why would you believe in Heaven? And if you believed in Heaven and believed you could go there once you died, would you still not believe that God exists?

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But I don't see how you would go to heaven if you don't believe in God.

Well, some people don't have a chance to make that choice, so obviously they wouldn't be sentenced to hell or anything for simply not knowing God existed.

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One of my constant arguements against those who say I should believe in their god 'just in case' is this:
If their god won't let me into their 'heaven' just because I don't believe in them, yet I've been a considerate, selfless individual throughout my life, then that god doesn't deserve my worship. It's as simple as that. And if this does scentance me to eternal torture, at least its better than eternal slavery.


Agreed, a God that condemns people, just because they don't believe in him/her/it doesn't deserve being worshipped or even being called a God.

About Hell n' stuff, I used to believe that Hell was like a prison: You would be kept in Hell for a certain amount of time, depending on what you did. I've never believed in "eternal suffering".

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Agreed, a God that condemns people, just because they don't believe in him/her/it doesn't deserve being worshipped or even being called a God.

That's what I keep telling to everyone. They don't seem to care, in fact, I'm often surprised how people get all nervous if you start blaspheming.

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No large religion worth its oats truly believes that anyone who does not believe that religion is instantly and absolutely condemned. The biggest Christian churches, notably the Catholic church, all say that individual belief doesn't matter; it's actions and intentions that determine your final fate, adn you gotta do something really, really, REALLY fucking evil to go to Hell. Those faiths that claim Hell is for non-members are typically a bunch of right-wing bigoted elitists in the first place.

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Well, some people don't have a chance to make that choice, so obviously they wouldn't be sentenced to hell or anything for simply not knowing God existed.


Well from what I've heard, people that were never born go to Heaven. God shows them mercy. Although I think Mormonism has a slightly different outlook on that. From their point of view they probably go to the lowest level of Heaven or something.

I don't know about people that have come to Earth and have never been exposed to any Christian doctrine. I remember asking someone that though. But I can't remember the answer.

Here is a Christian Forum I stop at sometimes if anyone has a question. There's probably a post like this somewhere on it too.

My Christian Network

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My dad studies the Book of Revelation, a LOT, and he's all about Christianity and that fun stuff. I remember me saying something like this and he replied that we AREN'T burned eternally in Hell.

I mean, shit, if you say Godammit as your only sin and you go to hell you burn for ETERNITY? That's harsh.

Apparantly there are three Christian schools of thought on this subject.

A: You burn forever. Stupid. No God could be this cold. Only the people that believe everyone who doesn't believe in Christ, like people in Africa, automatically go to hell. Makes no sense.

B: You burn until you've paid your dues, then are allowed into heaven. Kinda makes sense. God gives you a damn nasty spanking. Hanging out in a fire that burns but doesn't consume your flesh for, oh, 30 minutes, would be an insane amount of punishment wouldn't it? Imagine years.

C: You burn for a damn long time then you're 'destroyed'. You cease to exist. Not as nice as B but it beats the hell out of A doesn't it? =)

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Modifying your actions and behavior on your lifetime based on the "house" you'll get when you finally die is so fucking selfish. It kinda looses sense, you don't do it for God and friendship and love and all that, you do it ONLY to save your friggin ass.

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Did God create Man or did Man create God?
As a personal question so much in one's life, e.g. your freedom, depends upon the answer to this.

The strength of "Religion" is the repression of Knowledge

So true.

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Religion depends on faith. Knowledge and definite information destroys faith. Evidence that disproves one's faith destroys that faith. Evidence that proves and supports the tenants of faith, makes faith irrelevant and unecessary. So religion does depend on lack of knowledge. Although it doesn't necessarliy depend on the suppresion of knowledge; there are stil things in the modern world that no scientific method or tool can prove or disprove.

From The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, by Douglas Adams:

'... Now it is such a bizarrely impossible coincidence that anything so mindbogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof on the nonexistence of God.

'The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

'"But," says Man, "the Babel fish proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments you don't. QED."

'"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't though of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

'"Oh that was easy,' says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.

'Most leading theologians claim that this argument is a load of dingo's kidneys, but that didn't stop Oolon Colluphid making a small fortune when he used it as the central theme of his best-selling book, Well That about Wraps It Up for God.'

Man can be too samrt for his own good, you know. Personally, I don't want to be able to know everything. That would take all the mystery and fun out of life. :)

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This "Religion" is the shared religion that man uses to have power over other men,the cause of wars, starvation,inequality,all of the woes in the world.Not to be confused with personal religion which has no need to be shared or coveted(for this one no proof is required).

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You listen to too much Slayer.


I was half kidding. It is very much a possiblility that god is regularly trying to trick and dupe people into suffereing.... thres no way to know for sure..ever

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You obviously have enough "religion" (if that's the cute euphemism you wanna use) to pay for your computer and 'net connection on top of your basic expenses. So what do you have to worry about?

This is all so much coffeehouse politics... You can practically smell the pot smoke and hear the beat poets rant in the background. Heh. >:)

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Religeon = Ignorance

Well from what I've heard, people that were never born go to Heaven. God shows them mercy. Although I think Mormonism has a slightly different outlook on that. From their point of view they probably go to the lowest level of Heaven or something.

Mormonism is a pretty fucked up sect. They believe that Blacks and women cannot get to the highest tiers of heaven. This pretty much says that god is a bigot, at the least. If I were a christian, I would be pretty damn offended by this.

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Mormonism is a pretty fucked up sect. They believe that Blacks and women cannot get to the highest tiers of heaven. This pretty much says that god is a bigot, at the least. If I were a christian, I would be pretty damn offended by this.

Mormons aren't Christians. They had the gaul to add a third testament and are constantly second-guessing the established Bible. They even claim that the Church leadership are annointed prophets whose word is law. No Christian sect would dare do that.

Mormonism reminds me a lot of the Borg. They're nomads who try to integrate anybody they meet into the Church. They tithe the very humanity out of their members. You must remain a good little drone to be accepted by the leadership, and are shunned and isolated if you aren't. They marry and remarry constantly (using divorce in lieu of polygamy) and breed even faster than Catholics. Their only influence is in their sheer mass. The Mormon motto is "Industry" and their icon is a beehive that looks way the hell too much like a Borg cube. And Salt Lake is layed out on a crepy Borg-esque symmetrical grid system centered around the Temple.

So the way I figure it, they're either Borg, or Insect Spirits.

So... who else is looking forward to the Olympics in Salt Lake come February. The world is watching... They will be assimilated... Bwahahahahahah...

(No offense intended to anyone reading this. This has been Ugly Random Neuron Firing #5, brought to you by Wasatch Brewing Company. Try new Polygamy Porter beer: take some home to the wives tonight!)

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and breed even faster than Catholics.

Thats for damn sure. Most catholics I know tend to fit into the 2.3 children scheme. Most mormons I know have an ungodly (pardon the pun) amount of children. For instance, I knew a mormon girl who was 15 and had 9 siblings...ALL YOUNGER THAN HER!!! I think you have to be pertialy insane to be Mormon.

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The strength of "Religion" is the repression of Knowledge

So true.

OK smartey man, how much do you know about religion then?

Religeon = Ignorance

You know, I hear this all the time and it's always from people who know squat about religion and have never given it an honest chance. (That or somebody with power to gain over religion-haters to further him/herself personally.)

Why don't you say stuff like that that once you've spent years and years studying and practicing religions? Because you probably won't.

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Mormonism reminds me a lot of the Borg.

At least they arent as bad as the Scientologists.. I'll stop right there before Ling gets legal threats :)

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No, atheism = ignorance of religion


Well, somebody once told me that atheism IS a religion.

Here's the definition of religion that I've been told:

"Religion is the way we see life."

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I don't look at life at all. I consider myself an organic computer.


Ah, so your religion is that you are an organic machine, huh?

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You could say atheism is a religion. You've probably got a definite set of beliefs that you say point to the nonexistance of of any god. Your "worship" is in the absolute scorn of all established religions and practices.

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