A Few Questions on the Basic Features of Eternity

[HackNeyed]

As a player I've always been interested in the Eternity Engine as an engine that is not only Boom/Boom Compatibility compatible from MBF/SMMU but also as an evolution of those ports and their mentality. I've always seen the Doom games as a giant haunted fun house so I was very excited by the prospects of portals and after checking out the EE-Effects.wad and such my intrigue continues to grow but as a player the usability of the engine just isn't there for me yet. So I was wondering about/hoping for a few things that I'm waiting for and other Doomers may care about as well.

The biggest hurdle for me is the mouse support. In a prier topic way back in 2006 it was put to a vote and ultimately decided that EE would incorporate Chocolate Doom's mouse handling as an option and I was wondering what ever came of it? I don't find the option for it and it still doesn't feel right to me even in resent SVN builds. I prefer the mouse handling of PrBoom+ but in a close second tie would be Chocolate Doom and Odamex's 'Standard' handling. Also it comes in handy when always run is on to allow the 'Run' button to act as a Walk button when held.

Also I can't see to kill virtual mouse movement completely even when set to 0. Am I missing something?

Other things I would like to see in Eternity (and a less likely possibility PrBoom+) are Mouse Wheel and extra mouse button support as well as Next and Previous weapon commands that would also work well for full joystick/gamepad functionality. I'd like to set up the controls with my Xbox 360 pad just as it is in the Xbox 360 port. I can almost set up the 360 controller in Zdoom as it is in the 360 port save for the run button being a walk button since Zdoom fully uses the analog functionality which makes sense but still I prefer consistency and don't want to use Zdoom for Vanilla/Boom maps anyway.

Again, just wondering if we will see such things in Eternity? I really want to get excited about the hard work that is being done on EE but just can't until I know I will be able to enjoy my interaction with the game at least as much or more then I do in PrBoom+ or Chocolate Doom\Odamex .

I'm a stickler for Controls. If one doesn't enjoy a game's input they aren't likely to enjoy the rest of the game so I prefer customization that allows for my own and others own personal standardized control setup and feel.

Thanks for reading.

[Quasar]

HackNeyed said:

The biggest hurdle for me is the mouse support. In a prier topic way back in 2006 it was put to a vote and ultimately decided that EE would incorporate Chocolate Doom's mouse handling as an option and I was wondering what ever came of it? I don't find the option for it and it still doesn't feel right to me even in resent SVN builds. I prefer the mouse handling of PrBoom+ but in a close second tie would be Chocolate Doom and Odamex's 'Standard' handling. Also it comes in handy when always run is on to allow the 'Run' button to act as a Walk button when held.

This was discussed and then got sidelined. There have been some further tweaks to mouse behavior in recent SVN versions, including the ability to set the sensitivity just about as high as you could need it via the menus. However, we recognize there are still problems with it. PrBoom+'s mouse handling is not currently compatible with our own. I'm not sure about Choco Doom, but I am going to take another look at it and see if I can't get it added in as an option finally.

HackNeyed said:

Also I can't see to kill virtual mouse movement completely even when set to 0. Am I missing something?

I am going to assume that you meant vertical here, and that this is a request for Choco's "novert" emulation. I will look at this along with the Choco mouse code and add it as well.

HackNeyed said:

Other things I would like to see in Eternity (and a less likely possibility PrBoom+) are Mouse Wheel and extra mouse button support as well as Next and Previous weapon commands that would also work well for full joystick/gamepad functionality.

Mouse wheel support's been on my TODO list for quite a while. One reason I hadn't done it yet is due to the impending changes to the weapon system for EDF. So this may have to wait. Also I believe SDL only supports up to three normal mouse buttons plus the wheel up/down, so I will be limited with respect to what I can support through that library. As for joypad, you're the first to request further joypad button support, so consider that added to the list now. I'll see if I can just tackle that along with the mouse ;)

I'd say to expect developments on these things within a few days, probably by the weekend at the latest. If you're impatient you can talk to someone around here and they will hook you up with the newest SVN build when the time comes. Simorgh release looks to still be a while away with the documentation getting nowhere closer to finished.

[HackNeyed]

Sounds great! Thank you.

Yeah I was going to mention that I noticed the mouse was a bit better and more flexible so I thought work might be being done on it. I remember some time ago you were waiting for the weapon code to be updated too before working on the Next and Previous commands. I'm glad to hear it is still on the TODO.

If the extra mouse buttons are a limit of SDL then that isn't a big issue as it is relatively easy to find external programs (such as AutoHotKey or X-Mouse Button Control) that can handle those extra mouse buttons but it has not been as easy to find proper Mouse Wheel support in such programs. I recently switched to the SteelSeries Ikari laser mouse and find it to be the most comfortable and accurate mouse I've ever used, even beating out Logitech! But it's mapping options are almost a joke and nonexistent for the Wheel.

Many months ago when I built my Media Center PC I was able to set up PrBoom+ (or any port) with JoyToKey to remap the keyboard only commands to my PSX pad to mimic the digital input of PSX Doom but without a Next and Previous weapon command it gets frustrating fast. Native support for analog and digital joypads would be sweet! About a month ago I began having wrist pains so I've had to limit my computer time. I find controllers to still be comfortable while sitting back on the couch and I am really missing my Vanilla Doom/Boom fix while I recuperate!

So anyway thank you for the update and encouraging news! Likewise thanks to all who contribute to EE. Like I said, I really like where EE is going and I understand EDF and linked portals and many other features are a load of work that needs time and attention few people have and... well, I just want to be able to jump on board when the good ship EE really sets sail. ;)

Also, I've been getting my EE builds from here.

[Quasar]

Just to keep you updated, Choco-Doom-style mouse acceleration and input handling, as well as novert ability, were added into the code last night :) Other features should follow soon.

[entryway]

Quasar said:

Just to keep you updated, Choco-Doom-style mouse acceleration and input handling, as well as novert ability, were added into the code last night :) Other features should follow soon.

It will laggy eternity if you will not look into CreateCursors in Choco or I_InitInputs in PrBoom+

[Quasar]

I am missing something?

[SoM]

entryway said:

It will laggy eternity if you will not look into CreateCursors in Choco or I_InitInputs in PrBoom+

Actually the lag had nothing to do with the CreateCursors hack you guys used. It had to do with Eternity calling the input event gathering loop more than once per tick. This caused nearly 75% of mouse motion events to be lost. These issues are fixed now in SVN

[myk]

Could you guys an additional compatibility setting that makes Eternity use Doom's corpse behavior? For some reason Boom made corpses become pass-through things much faster than in Doom. In Doom you kind of bump into dying monsters while in Boom you go through them.

This does have some effect on gameplay because Doom's corpses can slow you down a little bit, and can also make some jump-to-exit-while-dead tricks (by using the rocket launcher or an arch-vile attack) harder in Doom.

PS: I noticed Eternity uses Doom's original colormap handling, which is great.