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Bloodshedder

The /newstuff Chronicles #329

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Ajapted said:

The fact that "there would still be ZDoom" is precisely why GZDoom could remove the software renderer without losing anything except the huge disparity of rendering capabilities.

If someone wants to play a map that utilises 3D floors and they can't use OpenGL, I think they'd be quite thankful for ports still supporting a software renderer. It works both ways.

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Graf Zahl said:

Should I ever decide to go GPL that'd be inevitable anyway due to the included Build code.

You could replace it by code taken from eDuke32...

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DooMAD said:

If someone wants to play a map that utilises 3D floors and they can't use OpenGL, I think they'd be quite thankful for ports still supporting a software renderer. It works both ways.

I dunno man, GZDoom can work on a 486 with a Voodoo2*, it's pretty hard to NOT be able to run GZDoom on an average computer, even low-end laptop these days.




* - Sound disabled as that's hoggy floating point piece-of-crap FMOD

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kristus said:

Well, if Eduke32 is GPL, that means that the Duke3d code is GPL. Which means there's no problem.

The story goes like this:

"Hey Ken, can you release the Build code under the GPL?"
"No way! I hate the GPL."
"Hey 3DRealms, can you release the Duke Nukem 3D code (including the full build engine) under the GPL?"
"Why, yes, yes I can. Here you go, kids, have fun!"
"Hey, Ken, Duke3D is GPL now. It means that Build is GPL now, doesn't it?"
"No it's not and never will be. But to avoid incompatibility, it counts as GPL when used with the Duke3D code."
"... Ooookaaaaaay..."

So Build isn't GPL unless you take it from DN3D (or Shadow Warrior, for that matter).

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Gez said:

"Hey, Ken, Duke3D is GPL now. It means that Build is GPL now, doesn't it?"
"No it's not and never will be. But to avoid incompatibility, it counts as GPL when used with the Duke3D code."
"... Ooookaaaaaay..."

Got a link to where Ken actually said that?

I don't believe it truly applies, the source code is the definitive place and there it's clear (in the README) that the bundled copy of Build is _not_ under the GPL but Ken's original license applies to it.

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Ajapted said:

Got a link to where Ken actually said that?

I don't believe it truly applies, the source code is the definitive place and there it's clear (in the README) that the bundled copy of Build is _not_ under the GPL but Ken's original license applies to it.



He can't do that. If Duke3D is GPL the Build source MUST be licensed at least with something compatible. If Ken agreed to this distribution he implicitly did that.

However, this doesn't help. ZDoom took its Build code from Ken's source directly and since it's so heavily changed I couldn't just relicense it with such a technicality.

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Shaikoten said:

No one wants to incur the wrath of Ken Silverman, lest he make a "Ken's Labyrinth 2."

Am I the only person that liked Ken's Labyrinth?

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WildWeasel said:

Am I the only person that liked Ken's Labyrinth?

Back in the days, I enjoyed the gameplay but found its graphics absolutely horrible. My brother couldn't play it, it gave him headache because it was far too fast (we had an AMD 386DX40 with a whooping 8 megabytes of RAM, so it was über elite roxxor, especially after we overclocked it).

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I've always been fond of Ken's Labyrinth. I still have a boxed copy, in fact.

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GreyGhost said:

With seventeen teleports I'd hesitate before describing this map as having dead-ends. On the downside - eight of those teleports have a common destination which is likely to become telefrag central station.

Those same 8 teleports don't exactly open fast in a firefight. However I do understand what you mean when trying to lose pursuers.
I can't get all the details in a review, can I?

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Eh, is cool to see my wad reviewed (UACarena.wad), though i missed more critic about the gameplay.... Anyway, thanks for reviewing it. I'm not complaining, but i think the review was more oriented on the architecture than anything.

As a side note, i would like to add that, being the wad dependant on the skill level, and some skill levels have different ammo pickups (double on NM and ITYTD, normal on the others) i've made a extra wad called DoubleAmmoPickup.wad. You can find it on http://doom.dogsoft.net

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Gravity was a nice surprise, a work of art just as the reviewer said and quite playable too, I would even enjoy exploring these maps with monsters switched off . I find it quite inspiring. I ran zennode on it to remove a few minor graphic glitches in Legacy.

Enjays 'BGPA Missions liberation' should get another review although it seems we all like it anyway. beats me why the baddies are called incas though.

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Live action roleplay games tend to have scenarios and names of that sort, this one is just a bit more modern than the traditional fantasy setting. The wad itself is excellent (bar lack of health after Smith dies), even if I did have to play without -fast (which would've been more realistic heh, I doubt any nation would fill it's ranks with slow-reacting soldiers :p) The BSoD's made me chuckle too.

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Plonker said:

beats me why the baddies are called incas though.


Following the Third World War, which changed the face of World politics, as such things are wont to do, a number of new nations appeared and, equally, a number of old powers waned. In this post war (note, not post apocalyptic) world, many of the current South American countries rose and consolidated into a new power known as the Inca Free Republic. The main seats of power in this new republic were centred around the traditional areas of the ancient Inca empire. Thus, the country was named after the ancient Incas and the citizens of the Inca Free Republic became known as "Incanese" but are commonly referred to as "Incas". In Britain, the post-war period was somewhat tough for a while. The British Police Association (BPA) took control of the country and ran it as a brutal police state for many years.

Following the almost simultaneous invention of stutterwarp and cold fusion late in the 23rd century, intergalactic space travel became possible. The invention was primarily British, allowing the BPA to stake an early claim on the newly discovered worlds made accessible by the technology. This allowed the BPA to gain intergalactic and, thus, a new level of world influence. However, the technology was soon put to work for other powers and many of the new powers and even companies, such as the huge Red Giant corporation, were able to establish intergalactic colonies. The Inca Free Republic was one such power. During this period, the BPA became the British Galactic Police Association (BGPA) and began the slow process of handing back power to a more democratic government, hampered by an ongoing state of semi-war with the French Empire. The task was not completed until the late 24th century.

During this time, international treaties were drawn up to outlaw war on Earth and were, largely, successful. However, no such treaties were drawn up for space and many of the new worlds became disputed territory. The ability to colonise quickly and hold on to power was something that the Incas proved adept at.

The Burghead mission takes place as the diplomatic situation between the Inca Free Republic and the BGPA is deteriorating. A number of minor skirmishes, such as the one in the mod, had a cumulative effect, eventually sparking a full scale invasion of the city of Britain on Earth by Incanese shock troops (primarily from off-world), giant war machines and creatures from an unknown origin, ending one of the longest periods of terrestrial peace known to man.

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WOW enjay, did you make all that up??? fargin hell. I get all that its just that as a keen historian I have a lot of sympathy for the real life Incas and find it hard to see them as the bad guys. I sometimes like to think that those left wing groups who control large sections of some right wing south american states are descendants of the last Incas making a comeback.

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Plonker said:

I have a lot of sympathy for the real life Incas and find it hard to see them as the bad guys.

That's the interest of having them as the bad guys. It's like having the Evil Tibetan Empire or something -- people realize that it's silly and not meant to actually reflect bias. It's the case of the country hated by nobody which makes it an acceptable target.

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My friend and I did, yes. There's, obviously, far more to it as well.

For a while, the Incas were just a sort of generic bad guy group because they had only ever been seen from the perspective of the BGPA. They had just been part of "world background" until their invasion of Britain. As such, they were always just "the enemy". However, we specifically sought to address that one-sided view in the live action and tabletop games.

Playing various Inca NPC roles during the Burghead event allowed my friend and I (and the other NPCs) to specifically explore the thoughts, feelings and aspirations of an Incanese soldier doing something like spending yet another long night on watch, sitting at the side of a railway line that has yet to be fully opened on a small, apparently pointless, planet somewhere in the ass-end of space whilst swapping tales with his mates and thinking about family, or the possibility of visiting Earth some day or whatever and just waiting for the dull shift to finish... just before getting slotted by a BGPA agent.

It's all very internal and self referential, I know, but I too have a lot more sympathy for these non-existent Incas and what their opinion of the BGPA might be. Many of the Incanese off world troops are meant to be battle hardened and intentionally genetically predisposed to brutality. The Incanese ruling body is not exactly nice either. However, your average Incanese citizen is just a human, like anyone else.

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Can somebody tell me what the music in the first level of Gravity is?

EDIT: by the way, the second level of Gravity is absolutely incredible.

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Enjay said:

It's all very internal and self referential, I know, but I too have a lot more sympathy for these non-existent Incas and what their opinion of the BGPA might be. Many of the Incanese off world troops are meant to be battle hardened and intentionally genetically predisposed to brutality. The Incanese ruling body is not exactly nice either. However, your average Incanese citizen is just a human, like anyone else.


I read a fairly new Star Wars novel recently that had a similar sort of feel to it, basically telling the events leading up to and during episode 4 from the POV of the Death Star peeps. The cloned troops have no feelings and the Empire isn't nice either, but the book portrayed the ordinary folks who built and operated it as humans like anyone else.

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jute gyte said:

Can somebody tell me what the music in the first level of Gravity is?


Could be original. None of it seems uniquely recognizable.

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