Multiple Switches in Vanilla -- the Comeback

[Xaser]

After some exhaustive search, I finally find an old thread I was looking for: Multiple switches in vanilla.


I've really been wanting to use this effect but for the life of me I can't space the barrel right. I was going to study the barrel but it turns out that I don't have Sargebaldy+Espi's updated version (neat2.wad -- the one which deals only 1 damage). Would any of you kind folks happen to have this old wad and would mind sharing it really quick-like? 'Tis a shame Sarge's site has been lost to the winds.

[Grazza]

Yes, I've got it, but oddly I can only find the wad and not the zip or anything else it included. I'll check another back-up, because I always keep the file as originally downloaded.

Anyway, it is attached.

neat2.zip

[chronoplasm]

Nice! This gives me some ideas for my own WAD.

[Creaphis]

Interesting. I've never seen that thread, but this
http://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/295960
is an effect I thought of about a year ago and never got around to using. Clearly I wasn't the first.

Also in reference to that thread, it strikes me that everyone in that discussion was concerned about making the damage as innocuous as possible. Why not use the damage and red flash as an intentional part of your level? If you have a switch that's going to damage the player, then throw a "high voltage" sign and a sparking wire next to it, or something.

[Xaser]

Thanks, Grazza. Though it seems like it's not exactly the one I'm looking for... in the thread there are two links to "neat2.wad", and the 2nd one presumably has the spacing perfectly so that the barrel deals only a single point of damage. That in particular is what I'm having trouble emulating.

Hmm, confusing. Wonder why they didn't go for a "neat3"?

[chronoplasm]

Creaphis said:

Also in reference to that thread, it strikes me that everyone in that discussion was concerned about making the damage as innocuous as possible. Why not use the damage and red flash as an intentional part of your level? If you have a switch that's going to damage the player, then throw a "high voltage" sign and a sparking wire next to it, or something. [/B]

I'm thinking of doing that in my mirror themed wad. You have to shoot your own reflection to progress through the level.
I'm still trying to figure out a way to throw yourself into an oven...

[esselfortium]

Creaphis said:

Also in reference to that thread, it strikes me that everyone in that discussion was concerned about making the damage as innocuous as possible. Why not use the damage and red flash as an intentional part of your level? If you have a switch that's going to damage the player, then throw a "high voltage" sign and a sparking wire next to it, or something.

If you're using them for half the switches in your map (as in some parts of KDiKDiZD), the believability of that explanation would probably run thin pretty quickly. :P

[Mechadon]

Crap, why do these fucking switches keep shocking me? D:

[esselfortium]

Here, gimme a handshake! *bzzt bzzt*

[GreyGhost]

Mechadon said:

Crap, why do these fucking switches keep shocking me? D:

Static electricity - damned synthetic fibre carpets! :P

[myk]

The final WAD is in the archive.

http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=12130

[chronoplasm]

Is there any way at all to get monsters to attack your voodoo doll?

[Grazza]

Monsters won't target a voodoo doll, but it can of course get damaged by cross-fire.

[Creaphis]

esselfortium said:

If you're using them for half the switches in your map (as in some parts of KDiKDiZD), the believability of that explanation would probably run thin pretty quickly. :P

True, but it's your own fault for getting into that mess :D

[Xaser]

@myk: Ah, precisely what I was looking for. Much obliged.

[LogicDeLuxe]

Nice idea, but that demo wad is quite unreliable. The switch sometimes works, and sometimes does nothing. And it doesn't work at all in skill 1.

[Kappes Buur]

@ Xaser

In 1995, Jens Hykkelbjerg showed in his spcial2b.wad, amongst other things, a multiple line switch, with appropriate sprites.

Maybe, that might help.

[myk]

Yeah, although that is a switch that does one different thing each time it's hit, as opposed to many things simultaneously.

LogicDeLuxe said:
The switch sometimes works, and sometimes does nothing. And it doesn't work at all in skill 1.

I've gotten it to fail by warping to the level, hitting it like a second after the level is loaded, but not by loading through the menu. I find it hard to explain unless something is being affected by Doom's randomizer. When it fails it does no damage to the voodoo doll.

Baby skill can't be fixed without messing up easy skill.

[esselfortium]

myk said:

Yeah, although that is a switch that does one different thing each time it's hit, as opposed to many things simultaneously.

I've gotten it to fail by warping to the level, hitting it like a second after the level is loaded, but not by loading through the menu. I find it hard to explain unless something is being affected by Doom's randomizer. When it fails it does no damage to the voodoo doll.

Baby skill can't be fixed without messing up easy skill.

It's Doom's randomizer, yeah. Sometimes, for some reason, the crusher turns the barrel into gibs before it has a chance to explode.

[Nuxius]

Yeah, this method isn't striking me as being terribly reliable.

It did, however, bring to light a problem with the way I have it implemented for KDIKDIZD. It seems as though the method I'm using there doesn't work in ITYTD either. Bummer. The weird thing is, is that the barrel is having a effect on the player because it will make the voodoo doll grab the potions I have set up (it causes no damage though), but it doesn't trigger the effects. I'll have to work with it a bit.

Silly Doom. :p

[esselfortium]

Nuxius said:

Yeah, this method isn't striking me as being terribly reliable.

It did, however, bring to light a problem with the way I have it implemented for KDIKDIZD. It seems as though the method I'm using there doesn't work in ITYTD either. Bummer. The weird thing is, is that the barrel is having a effect on the player because it will make the voodoo doll grab the potions I have set up (it causes no damage though), but it doesn't trigger the effects. I'll have to work with it a bit.

Silly Doom. :p

Really? I tested it in ITYTD after reading in here that the old method didn't work with it, and it worked. Albeit I only tried it once.

[chronoplasm]

Question:

Ok, so monsters won't target your voodoo doll, but they can still hit it if it gets in the crossfire.
So heres an idea:
You set a monster and your doll at one end of a narrow corridor behind an invisible wall. As soon as this monster hears you outside the corridor, it will start shooting, but because your doll is in the way it hits that instead.
As your doll gets hit, it gets pushed through the corridor over healing items and multiple switch linedefs.
Put an acid floor and specters in the area the player is at so they won't be wondering as much why their screen is flashing red.

Should I bother attempting this? Could it work?

[Creaphis]

chronoplasm said:

Could it work?

Probably not well.

chronoplasm said:

Should I bother attempting this?

Yes.

[chronoplasm]

OK, so I tried it out and it sorta kinda worked.
1) You have to be standing in one place where the imp can try to aim at you.
2) The corridor has to be as narrow as possible so that the doll doesn't get pushed out of the way and allow the imp to miss it.
3) It takes a while for the doll to be pushed. Maybe put the switches closer together?

[esselfortium]

When trying to solve this problem for KDiKDiZD, after some brief failed experiments with using monsters, I came up with a solution that allows for more flexibility in how multi-triggers can be activated (for example, they can be made to require a key, or to require several switches to be pressed before the event occurs), and doesn't rely on a crusher that can randomly fail.

The solution was to create a Dehacked object that calls the A_Explode codepointer once per tic, and to put a completely closed door between the explosion-generator and the barrel. When the player presses a switch to open the door, the opening allows the explosion-generator's splash damage to come through, hitting the barrel, which in turn is pushed forwards to hit the voodoo doll with one predictable explosion.

It still takes a lot of guessing and checking to get the distances set up in such a way that it deals little enough damage to actually be worth using, though, and when the damage is that low it only pushes the voodoo doll an incredibly short distance.