Map Status and Map Bug Reports

[Z0k]

Catoptromancy said:

The first doors only work in zdoom since they are untagged. Havent played much so far, but looks good.

oh you are right, since i only used zdoom for making maps so i forget to put tags to those lifts

http://rapidshare.com/files/388148543/map28.rar.html (fix)

anyways here is the map with the fix. when i played the map well i have hard times since the lack of ammo, and health so i put a little more of both. hope isnt hard enough the map.

[Catoptromancy]

In very first hall there is a blocking hanging body. It is pretty high so I changed it to unblocking, seems out of place and in the way. Added deathmatch starts and fixed an overlapping linedef. Ran it through Zennode for good luck.
Should be in daily builds soon. Looks to be nice!

[Catoptromancy]

Ok here is the map, hopefully someone with repo access will commit it.

Zok's map
http://ftpusers.coffeenet.org/~cato/freedoom/maps/map28.wad

[wesleyjohnson]

MAP13 rev 2.01 uploaded to incoming, johnson_map13_0201.zip.
Fixes a HOM on the spillboard at the big nukage pool.
Fixes a sightline problem, seeing the stacks cutoff when viewed over the exit building, so that building raised.

Note: Because incoming is not readable, means that my level_design doc, which was meant to be usable by anyone, is now not accessible.
Is there some public download place in FreeDoom for such ?

[Jon]

wesleyjohnson said:

Note: Because incoming is not readable, means that my level_design doc, which was meant to be usable by anyone, is now not accessible.
Is there some public download place in FreeDoom for such ?

Sounds like something that should perhaps be put on the freedoom website.

Looking at Savannah, there are three members of the project: Fraggle, myself and Mike Swanson. I haven't heard from Mike for some time. Fraggle and I are essentially retired.

I think it would make sense for wesleyjohnson and Catoptromancy to become 'members' of the project (in Savannah terms) and have commit access to the repository (and website).

I will try to contact Mike S to square this with him.

[Catoptromancy]

Map13 and Map28 updated into repo, will be in dailys very soon.
I see some new music ill sort through soon too.

[240-185]

Hi,

I just downloaded the FreeDoom IWAD in order to see what it looked like. After that, I applied a Simpsons mod in order to make it funnier to play... until MAP03.

This map is almost completely unplayable and unbalanced on "Ultra-Violence" difficulty, and just starting with the basic gun.

First issue: there are almost NO large medikits (I spotted only two of them), and a few stimpacks that are grouped together. This is a very bad balance and the main issue of this map.

Second issue: because of the previous issue, the player quite starts the map with half of his energy after killing the first enemies.

Third issue: after activating a switch, a bajillion of enemies come out and eat the few ammo I managed to collect. Trying to get past that crowd is possible, but very risky. Corollary of the first issue: no way to heal, even if the player managed to kick these arses.

Fourth issue: after activating another switch, some revenants and chaingunners are spawned. The problem is that all my ammo get in their asses, and this is a huge trouble, I'll explain why.

Fifth issue: how to get the yellow key? I hated the moment where I had to type IDCLIP...

Sixth issue, corollary of the first issue: that's very clever to spawn a hell knight without any possibility to heal before. Running past him results to immediate death in half of my tries. And because the previous revenants and chaingunners have eaten my ammo, I don't see how on Hell I can kill him and his Imps with only 50 bullets and 20 shells, and no space to avoid these people's fireballs. The two Cacodemons at the beginning of the first map of the third episode of DOOM I are a child play compared to this crazy thing.

Seventh issue: WHAT? After surviving three crowds of ammo-eating badasses, trying to get each key guarded by a dozen of monsters, dealing with Cacodemons and Revenants, getting chased by a Hell Knight and his fellow Imps, you want me to get rid of the even tougher guy in the final room locked by the red key, with almost no ammo? Are you freaking kidding me? No way, IDDQD.

That map is way too harsh, compared to the following maps #4 and #5.

[Catoptromancy]

Retested MAP03 in -skill 3 and am highly considering on adding more health. Will check out -skill 2 also.
Swapping map placement is also possible.

[240-185]

Thanks for having checked ;)

But as far as I play the levels, I noticed some blatant design flaws.

Is there a chaingun in any of Freedoom maps?

MAP05: There isn't any suit to begin with the corridors of toxic waste, so the player _must_ lose some of his HPs before he can grab one of those in the underground.

MAP07: Skill 3. How can I get rid of these Mancubus without having my ass heavily kicked?

MAP09: At the end of the level, the player must get a blue keycard by crossing another corridor of toxic waste. The problem is that there is a suit _before_ entering the corridor, but there isn't another suit after the player has got the blue key, instead of that, he's being greeted by sergeants. After the fights, if player's HPs are below 50, death is unavoidable, since there isn't an emergency suit.

MAP10: OK, seriously, whoever designed this level is a freaking idiot. Skill 3. Two Cacodemons right from start, planted at 10 feet from the player. They begin to attack him. He barely gets the green armor. He barely manages to get in the small room with the two clips and the stimpack. He comes back to the Cacodemons. Cacodemons finish the player.

But it's not the worst part of that level. ***IF*** the player manages to kill the Cacodemons, he can go down the level. Or not, the door is on strike. There, he's greeted by a bunch of chaingunners and TWO HELL KNIGHTS. WITH ALMOST NO BULLETS AND NO HEALTH. Coming back upwards is hopeless. Don't even think to escape them by going into the corridor at the left, chaingunners will say hello to you. And another Hell Knight. And lost souls. And a Pain elemental.

Jesus Christ, playing such a game should be FUN, not some tricky challenge that only PGMs manage to get through! Did the maker of this level make some TESTS to other players before releasing such a disaster?



[edit after checking other threads: I figured out that there was a daily build of this maps. So the "MAP09" above is not any more the ninth map, and the "MAP10" has become the "MAP12". It is still a retarded map.]

[boris]

240-185 said:

MAP07: Skill 3. How can I get rid of these Mancubus without having my ass heavily kicked?

I just played that map again and I'd actually say that the Mancubus part is too easy. Once you manage to get into one of the storage rooms you're pretty much safe. I found that Arachnotron part a lot harder.

[Catoptromancy]

240-185 said:
Jesus Christ, playing such a game should be FUN, not some tricky challenge that only PGMs manage to get through!

Many maps still need testing. I agree some maps like MAP12 are still ridiculous but MAP03 on -skill 4 is fine, though it should be a later map.

If -skill 2 or -skill 3 is too hard on any map, those can be made easier.

Maps that force player through slime without suit will be looked at. There should be enough extra health to survive. MAP05 has the side ledges though, with careful movement there is no need to actually step in slime.

There is also lower skill. Noone is forced to attempt -skill 4. I rather like Freedoom maps a bit harder than the original since over the last 15 years people have become accustom to FPS shooters much more. Skill 4 should be challenging.

I dont think skill 4 should be lowered so that newer players can beat maps in -skill 4. That is why there are three more lower skills. Experienced doomers can find a nice challenge in -skill 4. Newer doomers can still play a nice game in -skill 3 or lower.
Experienced players cannot raise the skill past 4 without going into nightmare. Newer players have three more options to make game easier.

[wesleyjohnson]

I have noticed the same difficulty on some of the levels 1 through 12,
but with all the updates I am not sure what level they might be talking about. Just made a library trip to get daily build (5 seconds download vrs 20 mins at home) and have not played through it yet, so I cannot comment yet on specifics.

But, I do not think that the harder play levels are something that "nobody is forcing you to play". FreeDoom should be no harder than the original levels, and some of them were just difficult (lacking the fun part), and we should be able to do better and more refined, not "harder to play".

I do not want to have to play levels using savegame all the time, nor do I want to commit an entire day to replaying one level over and over again until I can get through it. PWAD can have that kind of difficulty, and I do grade them down for throwing monster waves at the player and other "Look I killed the player again, ha ha" traps.

This discussion is parallel to the thread "Level commentary and feedback", and probably would be better there.

[Malinku]

I'll take e2m2
here is the map. The gameplay and layout is 100% done. I might change the Detail a bit (to make more e2 looking).
http://www.sendspace.com/file/tb43cg

[Catoptromancy]

Added! Will be in daily builds in less than 24 hours.

[wesleyjohnson]

Upload Map09 v6 (johnson_map09_v6.zip)
Major update to Map09, Jan 2, 2011.
The texture things mentioned in the forum were fixed.
Turned half the map around to make large changes in the river.
Half the river has been removed and blocked off, the other half reworked and simplified.
The mine pit has made deeper, half roofed, and support pillars,
another switchback added.
Mining machines, desks, and things have been added.
Other small changes all over the place.
Some small monster caves in the mine area were removed (they did
not contribute to the play).

[BondEar]

I've been playing 0.7rc. map02 has a slime trail beneath the Exit sign. Also, is it such a good idea to have the super shotgun easily available on the second level? I mean, you even get it before the chaingun.

[Catoptromancy]

Which port gives slime trail?

[BondEar]

prBoom 2.4.7.

[Catoptromancy]

wesleyjohnson said:

Upload Map09 v6 (johnson_map09_v6.zip)
Major update to Map09, Jan 2, 2011.
The texture things mentioned in the forum were fixed.
Turned half the map around to make large changes in the river.
Half the river has been removed and blocked off, the other half reworked and simplified.
The mine pit has made deeper, half roofed, and support pillars,
another switchback added.
Mining machines, desks, and things have been added.
Other small changes all over the place.
Some small monster caves in the mine area were removed (they did
not contribute to the play).

This crashes boom202 with MFADEMAP errors. Could you send one that has been tested in boom202.

EDIT>> Nevermind it was figured out.

BondEar said:

prBoom 2.4.7.

Its likely minor graphic glitch. Ill add to the list.

[Catoptromancy]

Some reason I cant edit first post.

Coop testing!
MAP05 - needs a gun at start, tagged multiplayer. Maybe an sg. During coop the suits can run out and players can lose keys making map nearly impossible with so much slime to run through. A decent fix may be to have the lowest area cause no damage. That should save enough health to grab red key and finish map. Other more logical ways may be possible.

MAP08 - Nobody could raise bars at exit. No idea. Maybe an Odamex bug.
MAP09 - Needs multiplayer tagged guns and ammo.

Only played up to map11.

[Memfis]

Map07 uses SLOPES! (linedefs 177, 180, 188 for example). I thought freedoom is supposed to be boom compatible?

[Gez]

Memfis said:

Map07 uses SLOPES! (linedefs 177, 180, 188 for example). I thought freedoom is supposed to be boom compatible?

It does not break Boom compatibility.

[Memfis]

OK, sure, but... still, that's kinda weird when you say "I'm making a map for port X" and then use feature from port Y. Even if it's just a cosmetic feature.

[wesleyjohnson]

Updated MAP09 rev07 with multiplayer guns and things.
Moved some things, added a bit here and there to make it work right.
Added a closet for the deathmatch player start to hide in.
It became a general update.

Please test in coop mode. I do not have anyone here to help test coop and deathmatch (I think my last deathmatch was against MYK at the MPLS convention center, and I do not even remember the year).
In the Multiplayer thread, I am looking for any feedback on how to design multiplayer in the level maps.

[BondEar]

As far as the slime trail goes, I ran a "check for missing textures" in Yadex on MAP02. Turns out linedefs 204-207 and 845-848 are missing textures for the lower part of the second sidedefs. If you add them then the slime trail will probably go away.

EDIT: Did it myself. Turns out that the way it's set up there's an island of floor underneath the exit sign now. There's a rectangle of floor underneath the exit sign surrounded by a narrow, bottomless "moat". The sides of the moat have the texture I set the lower sidedefs to.

I'd take screenshots but I don't know which directory prboom saves them in by default.

[RjY]

Hmm I guess it's using vanilla shadowcasting to have the exit sign lit up without having a patch of light on the floor.

Since freedoom is a Boom wad - indeed map02 even uses various Boom linedef specials - the floor under the sign could easily be replaced with Boom light transfers.

Edit: fix attempted, patch emailed to chungy's gmail address

Edit2: it's pushed.

[sgtcrispy]

After reading your comments on map03, I'll be giving it a bit of a rework.
More compact, better skill levels, ect ect.
I should have a newer version posted this weekend somewhere for your playtesting pleasure.

:)

[Catoptromancy]

This thread will be continued here:

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/freedoom/54343-map-status-and-map-bug-reports/