Commander Keen 3D (using a Doom port)

[Hellbent]

[Creaphis]

I think this would be awesome if done right. To be done right, somebody needs to be able to put a lot of effort into this, including graphics and scripting work of course, and to keep putting that effort in when other team members drift away. Is anyone here man enough - no, keen enough for the task?

[TimeOfDeath]

YES.

Rocket jumping is perfect for imitating stuff in other games where you can jump higher with an item, but forcing people to rjump isn't very nice.

[Hellbent]

TimeOfDeath said:

YES.

Rocket jumping is perfect for imitating stuff in other games where you can jump higher with an item, but forcing people to rjump isn't very nice.

Ooh, good idea. Just remove splash damage for this Keen game and change the rocket explosion sound to "boing!"

Hey, check it out, Tom Hall has a personal website I just stumbled on. He just updated it two days ago with a little blurb on Commander Keen! Kinda serendipitous.

http://tomtomtom.wordpress.com/

When the "3D" Doom engine was being developed Tom Hall wanted to make a third trilogy of Commander Keen using the new engine in favor of making Doom. He was voted down on that front in favor of a more "mature" themed game: Doom. I guess his dream of making a third episode has since faded, but maybe there is an email contact on his website and we could nag him about it! I know this has been an off and on topic over the last five or ten years: There was a rumor that Tom Hall was thinking about making a 3D Commander Keen.

[kristus]

/me imagines the horror of pogo stick jumping in first person.

Well, Tom still wants to continue the Keen saga. So it's hardly a big surprise that he does blog posts about Keen.

[Stupid Bunny]

I am a regular on the Commander Keen forum and we have, indeed, discussed the possibility of a Commander Keen-themed Doom mod. In fact, I actually worked on such a project a couple years back and have a bunch of sprites and textures still sitting on my computer somewhere. I don't think I'll ever finish it as my schedule has gotten too busy, but if somebody else starts work on such a project I'd be happy to share what I've done.

[Hellbent]

I just posted this on the comments section of Tom Hall's website.

Hey Tom, I just read on Doom-Wiki that you originally wanted to make a third trilogy of Commander Keen instead of doom back in '92! Well, it turns out I'm a BIG fan of the Commander Keen series (specifically Episode 1 and Episode 4--gotta love all those secrets!) and Doom! I still make maps for Doom and have dappled a little in CK mapping (you could say I'm a bit nostalgic for the glory days of id...) and was wondering if there is still any hope for Commander Keen to be blazing his way into the 21st century? I think there is a market for simpler games and a new CK game would be very exciting. I have never been too much a fan of the more "mature" directions the gaming industry has gone. Keen had the perfect mix of adventure, charm and character! Let me know!
thanks,
Jason

[Hellbent]

DUDES! What is THIS?

Note the link on that page... "If a new Commander Keen's version were available..."

Make sure you become a Fan of Billy Blaze!

Haha, get a load of this: A video of Bobby Prince talking about the history behind the theme track to Secret of the Oracle (the song has lyrics!)

[Hellbent]

Posted this on the CK site --not the same thing as a doom conversion--but the idea that id software? Tom Hall? might make a new CK game is exciting!

I would just like to stress what I see are some important things to keep in mind if this project really gets under way. The most important thing to a game's success is art and design. If the levels are too complex, if the art is too convoluted, if the game is bogged down by too many features, then no matter how sophisticated the game engine and no matter how glossy and polished it looks the game will not grab peoples' attention and imaginations.

CK4 struck an excellent balance of challenging and interesting levels that weren't too mazy/confusing; it struck a _very_ good balance in regards to artistic design: the levels were steeped in rich atmosphere and ambiance and just the right amount of charm and character and were very visually pleasing and fun to explore. (I especially liked the homage to the Ents!!) The episode had an excellent balance of features and easter eggs but didn't go overboard--this is especially true and important in the gameplay department--cliff hanging, looking/shooting up and down and pogo stick--all easy to use and implement. The pogo stick is simple to operate and adds an integral gameplay dynamic that is unique from other side scrollers (and its tricky super pogo jump maneuver is a great feature!).
If the gameplay remains solid and the art remains relatively simple but emotive (not trying to outdo itself--don't try to reinvent the wheel!) there's no reason this shouldn't be a great return for Keen. Also don't forget to think about what Commander Keen would want for his return. ;)

To sum up, keep it simple--don't get too ambitious--focus on an excellent and unified artistic theme and game design and the appropriate features and other game elements will present themselves. (CK4 had several complementing themes that worked very well together, most notably earthy, crude oil, and caverns) . Start simple and finish simple.

Maybe one possible approach could be to combine all the best elements from all the keen games into the new game. So for example, from Keen 1 you could bring back the messages that Keen hears in his mind and the black hidden bricks you see naught but their upper left corner, and of course, you'd have to bring back the one eyed yorp! Also could bring back the neat little huts from Keen 1 and 4; the abundance of cool secrets from CK4 along with its excellent art design and atmosphere (did I mention I loved the sentient trees?).

You would of course have to introduce some new elements. One possibility could be for Commander Keen to have a spunky sister whom he's convinced to join the cause; so you could have the option to play as keen or his sister: http://www.signumfas.com/gallery/fanart/commanderkeen.jpg or http://a303.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/10/s_6cc5fdc4839bf9835a047cc13db56f3e.jpg for inspiration. Maybe there could be a split screen option to play as both characters

You could introduce another character: A bully from school that is mocking Commander Keen and trying to thwart him; trying to be his nemesis: http://www.deviantart.com/download/59645512/Kommander_Keen_by_TomAzza.jpg

I think a life meter would be good. You could bring back rain drops from CK4 but instead of getting an extra life after collecting 100 of them they could be like health potions from doom, adding 1% health to your health meter. Small milk jugs could add 10% health and chocolate milk could add 25%. (Or if you want to be mean to Keen you can substitute milk and chocolate milk with carrots and broccoli, but I never thought realism made for fun computer games!). Another related elment I would like to see is "save game safety points" in levels. Instead of being able to save the game at any given moment like in ck4-6, when you save it saves at the last safety point in a level (a happy medium between only being able to save in the world map vs. being able to save at any point.)

In closing, I'd like to stress one more important thing that I hope is self evident but I'll mention just in case: don't have the game take itself too seriously or become too realistic! The characters shouldn't be too sinister. Keep the charm of CK4! That includes farting slugs, smiling bouncing balls (not the annoying ones from CK3), groovy bouncing mushrooms, floating princesses and one eyed yorps! (or at least the spirit of these things) ohh... and how could I forget.. burping Dope fish!

Oron Haim wrote: "Same style as it was.
Oldies are still the best games out there.
I guess I could live playing this game in 3D, but it'll have to be very well done."
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/Tirqin/Keen6a.jpg

I couldn't agree more. (I think I'm leaning more toward a 2D format similar to CK4 at this point)

Jeez... maybe I should drop out of school and become a game developer. :D Writing these kinds of dissertations is much more fun than writing papers. ;)

Commander Keen graffitti on a building wall: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2396/2314561471_6e10d2dcc5.jpg?v=0 (probably not the same one mentioned by the Aussie girl tho)

(all linked images were copied from a Google image search)

[Hellbent]

Hellbent said:

DUDES! What is THIS?

Note the link on that page... "If a new Commander Keen's version were available..."

Make sure you become a Fan of Billy Blaze!

Haha, get a load of this: A video of Bobby Prince talking about the history behind the theme track to Secret of the Oracle (the song has lyrics!)

Okay, so it's just a fansite. But check this out straight from the horse's mouth. (I didn't realize the reason we haven't seen Keen revisited is because id Software has the rights!)

tommune [Tom Hall] Says:
November 26, 2008 at 4:02 pm

that would be because id owns [the rights to Commander Keen]. Love to have the rights back…. would make a bunch o’ Keen!

[iceman57]

Well, I offer custom textures work if required.
This game was one of the first I played on a 286 SX16 bringed back home by my father, a winter evening, 15 years ago... :D
___

But I've a question, you need to choose between the amount of good project ideas you wrote recently.

Define priorities... Would it be E1 redesign or Commander Keen ?

Thanks in advance.

[Hellbent]

iceman57 said:

Well, I offer custom textures work if required.
This game was one of the first I played on a 286 SX16 bringed back home by my father, a winter evening, 15 years ago... :D
___

But I've a question, you need to choose between the amount of good project ideas you wrote recently.

Define priorities... Would it be E1 redesign or Commander Keen ?

Thanks in advance.

Yeah, I do. I think probably one of the doom project proposals since it's more manageable--more realistic thing to tackle. I think sticking with the original project idea I posted probably makes the most sense. The one where we make maps similar to the original episodes (1-3) as described in the "Original Doom Project Idea" post. Thanks for the interest!