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SLIGE 2?

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It seems the program SLIGE can no longer be downloaded, but you can download the daily SLIGE wad from this site (http://www.soulsphere.org/stuffage/slige/) It's great, but it has it's problems.

None of the levels have Barons Of Hell, Pain Elementals, Arch-Viles, Arachnotrons, Mancubuses, it doesn't use all of Doom's textures, it doesn't have enough barrels, weapons, poison, all the levels are cubical, etc.

Sure people have abused SLIGE in the past but it's a good tool and it begs to be updated. Will someone ever make SLIGE 2?

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Well, that puts me behind the times.

I suppose it's only a matter of time until someone sends this post to hell.

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Is OBLIGE based on that original SLIGE code, or is it built entirely from scratch?

Also, one older Cacowards edition mentioned SLIGE as being "easily the best" (back then) "as far as Doom level generators go". Does that mean there were/are others?

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A word of warning/advice to anyone even contemplating doing anything with the SLIGE source; don't. The SLIGE source to be quite frank is an utter mess, however that can be forgiven somewhat due to it's age. Seriously, don't bother.

A couple of months back I used the SLIGE source to create a map generator plugin for Doomsday (for shits n' giggles no less) so I do know what I'm talking about.

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I tried OBLIGE last night, it's impressive but like SLIGE it isn't perfect. The layouts are repetitive and none of the levels are really memorable. After 3 or 4 levels my memory fails and they all start melting into each other.

At least it's being updated as we speak. I'll hold my tongue until then.

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Maes said:

Also, one older Cacowards edition mentioned SLIGE as being "easily the best" (back then) "as far as Doom level generators go". Does that mean there were/are others?


Well, I remember that level 32 in 10sectors.wad was randomly generated by a different program, which was written by the person who submitted that map to the contest. I haven't been around long enough to know what other programs might exist, and chances are they're all just curiosities (like this one) that make maps you could get sick of very quickly.

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You're thinking of WadC, which is a programming language for Doom WADs. Not the same thing, but it's in the same vein of automated Doom level construction.

I seem to remember there being a fork of SLIGE (don't remember the name), but other than that I don't remember another Doom level generator.

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OBLIGE was written from scratch (no SLIGE code used at all).

Creaphis said:

Well, I remember that level 32 in 10sectors.wad was randomly generated by a different program, which was written by the person who submitted that map to the contest.

That was Aardappel, same guy who made Cube and Sauerbraten engines.

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When Oblige was first coming out, I remember someone from the newdoom community mentioned that they had already been working on an automatic map generator but wasn't making a whole lot of progress. I forget who it was.

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That would be me and my SCUDD project. Its currently on the back burner but I plan to return to it once Doomsday 1.9.0 is released.

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TomoAlien said:

Sauerbraten is a 3D engine based on Quake engine.


Wrong.

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DaniJ said:

That would be me and my SCUDD project. Its currently on the back burner but I plan to return to it once Doomsday 1.9.0 is released.


SCUDD? Is it any good?

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Its good in the sense that it uses much higher level logic than any automatic map generator I've seen for any game, period and can generate some pretty intricate architecture (though I do say so myself). However as its not even build-able (yet alone releasable) presently; it is completely irrelevant and should be considered vaporware, heh.

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My problem with SLIGE and OBLIGE is that the design isn't memorable and everything feels the same after a couple of levels. They're good overall, but they're repetitive. It's like watching the CSI marathon. After the first two episodes, all that matters is that they find the semen with a UV light and crack the case.

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Well, there's a limit to how creative a computer can be. If you want an interesting experience, then try something made by humans instead of randomly-generated CSI episodes.

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An interesting possibility for Doom (or any map-based game, for that matter) would be using a random map generator based on a neural network, which will first be "trained" by either allowing it to examine existing levels, and/or by giving it feedback on the results of a map generation (e.g. it's too big, that room was OK, that other room was not etc.) and so, with time, sort out the good bits and explore interesting mutations.

Unlike trying to develop a complex deterministic algorithm that will result in good levels, this approach will use simpler entities which will self-organize, it's the only way a computer-generated level will ever rival hand-made ones.

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Yeah the last thing I'd direct you to in terms in finding creativity is Oblige or Slige. You gotta understand that they are map generators, not mappers.

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