Doom 4 Writer Revealed

[Enjay]

Shaviro said:

2) The way the player dies in Episode 1 is not all that different from a modern scripted event. Neither is the way you're set up for boss fights.
3) In the story, Deimos disappears from the sky as a result of the experiments. After dying, the player goes to hell. This is where Deimos has gone to, and the player ends up here. The Deimos bases have been heavily hellified.
4) In Episode 3 you're in native hell. The environments are truly fucked up.

I know that it may contradict some people, even official sources, but my interpretation of the end of Ep1 is not that you die, but rather that you arrive in the Deimos base and the little room at the end of Ep1 represents you being thrown into the fight when you get to Deimos. To me, the way that the end of episode story is phrased supports that but, equally, it doesn't contradict your sequence of events either. ("What the hell is this?... looks like the lost Deimos base" - written in the present tense could be interpreted as describing that little room. However "this" could just be your lack of "fat reward" and your general situation.) One minor technical point in favour of my theory is that you don't die at the end of Episode 1. In fact, the special sector that reduces your health and finishes the level when you get to 10% or below (or is it below 10%?) has code specifically to prevent you dying.

My interpretation continues... When you get to Deimos, it has disappeared from the sky but is not actually in hell (yet?) merely hanging over it. This is why it isn't fully hellified yet. You, the Doomguy, are still alive. Indeed, part of your motivation for "escaping from hell" is that you are heading into it alive.

When you finish Episode 2, you, as a live human, descend into hell to kick butt. That's part of what gives you the edge and what makes you so unusual. Normally a person in hell is dead, but you're not. What's more, when you win "hell plays fair" and you can get back to Earth, not as some kind of undead creature, or even one who has had life restored, but a living human.

Like I said, it's not everyone's view, but it works for me. :)

[Shaviro]

Yeah it's a nice interpretation.
And it's a dicussion that would not be possible if Doom hadn't had the level of story that it did. The story is somewhat abstract in certain areas. That can often be a good idea. Doom 4 doesn't have to be as clear-cut as Doom3 was.

[Creaphis]

Unfortunately, there's a fine line between stories that are "open to interpretation" and stories that are "incomprehensible" or "absent." At least, stories of the first category will be perceived by many players as being in one of the latter. I think that the players who need every little plot point spelled out for them will simply need to be ignored in the aims of making a truly interesting story for the rest of us. Hopefully id allows Joyce to write an interesting story that appeals to most instead of a predictable story accessible (but boring) to all.

[DooMAD]

Let's just hope it's not a story about "evil genes" or some such bollocks.

[Macro11_1]

After reading what has been posted so far, I think I can safely make my own opinion. The way the posters before me have all described doom's "story" is with passion, and what it seems to be that you all notice AND enjoy from it is not really its story, but the theme presented. I mean, if you think about it, what you've all have presented is one mans struggle against all odds, going literally to hell and coming back with his soul intact. There was no explication as to why he did it, or how he felt after the ordeal, he just simply did it. The fact that scientists fucked up and made a mistake, or UAC's corrupt shit didn't matter at that point, since the marine was the only one left, it was simply a matter of survival. He never said sorry, or said that he will be haunted by the images of demons, and in contrast he never said he did it for glory or adoration, and certainly never for profit.

After considering that, I compare this to doom 3, and why it was so ill received becomes apparent. It changed the theme of doom, from one mans survival to one mans quest of vengeance. Had these two games been reversed, doom 3 coming out on what we know as the doom engine, and doom coming out on the doom3 engine, I think that the latter would have been better received because It is simply more appealing in its basic thematic elements.

I duno, Im probably alone in that, I just personally hope that iD understands that if they are going to make a sequel or even an expansion to their game world, they consider how to deal with the thematic elements first.

[Gez]

Creaphis said:
Hopefully id allows Joyce to write an interesting story that appeals to most instead of a predictable story accessible (but boring) to all. [/B]

I'm betting on a stream-of-consciousness narrative about the hardships in the life of a Dublin-born marine.

[Splatter]

Macro11_1 said:

He never said sorry, or said that he will be haunted by the images of demons, and in contrast he never said he did it for glory or adoration, and certainly never for profit.

Doom 64's story actually had the Doomguy dealing with some pretty heavy post-traumatic stress syndrome. But I agree that Doom's "one man army here comes the night train" feel was an asset. One of the things about Doom 3 that killed that was how sparse the opposition was. Last levels of the game, individual imps were still teleporting in. The next Doom game should go in the opposite direction, make you fight a shit-ton of demons coming at you from every angle, preferably with a co-op partner and some rock or metal blaring in the background.

[Creaphis]

Gez said:

I'm betting on a stream-of-consciousness narrative about the hardships in the life of a Dublin-born marine.

And the sound of a teleportation experiment failing shall be described as bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk.


More on topic, I'm realizing something here. Everyone agrees that Doom's feel was just right, but everyone has a slightly different description of what that feel is. In other words, Doom's story is perfect because it's abstract enough for every player to fill the gaps in just how he/she likes it.

[GreyGhost]

Creaphis said:
And the sound of a teleportation experiment failing shall be described as bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk.

Where are they conducting these experiments - Krung Thep Mahanakhon Amon Rattanakosin Mahinthara Yuthaya Mahadilok Phop Noppharat Ratchathani Burirom Udomratchaniwet Mahasathan Amon Piman Awatan Sathit Sakkathattiya Witsanukam Prasit?

[Vegeta]

Enjay said:

End of E1

I agree with everything. I'd only add that in my opinion id also wanted a shocking end like that to motivate people to buy the whole thing. If the game ended with a nice endpic or cutscene it would never be the same.
Not exactly, but for me it's like a "censored" showcase of what's next on the two retail episodes.

[printz]

It would be best if game first, story last. I fear the developpers forgot this when they hired the writer. This is a hint why we're so getting boring games now (call me wrong).

Vegeta said:

Not exactly, but for me it's like a "censored" showcase of what's next on the two retail episodes.

I'd say those are mere craze-inducing images one sees while travelling those gateways, before coming up the other side, babbling vulgarities, bludgeoning anything, and blowing up :) I doubt they represent a Deimos area, they're just abysmal hallucinations our hero happens to survive.

[Enjay]

Vegeta said:

I'd only add that in my opinion id also wanted a shocking end like that to motivate people to buy the whole thing. If the game ended with a nice endpic or cutscene it would never be the same.
Not exactly, but for me it's like a "censored" showcase of what's next on the two retail episodes.

Indeed. I agree entirely. It's a real cliff-hanging "leave 'em wanting more" ending, intended to encourage people to buy the full version. And yes, I certainly remember it working that way. OK, I don't think that I was ever not going to get the full thing but I remember being particularly keen to get the rest of the game and that ending did play a part.

[40oz]

In addition to the lack of endpic, the very end after defeating the barons and going in the ending teleport took you to a pitch black room, removed your god mode, and kicked your ass. So basically your like "SHIT I THOUGHT I WAS WINNING now I need the whole game to feel at least somewhat victorious."

[Bastet Furry]

JohnnyRancid said:

All doom 4 really needs is nothing more than some tougher monsters, more of said monsters, more light, and bigger maps. Anything else is truly unnecessary.

Exchange tougher with wimpier, make that many more monsters and i am with you.
Just like original Doom.

[TMD]

Frankly I was Half expecting Peter "And then John was a Zombie" Chimera

[Solarn]

Am I the only one who liked Doom 3?

I'm just looking forward to Doom 4. I really want to see what it will be like.

[Creaphis]

I'll probably like it when I can play it.

[Jeremiah Zero]

Solarn said:

Am I the only one who liked Doom 3?

I'm just looking forward to Doom 4. I really want to see what it will be like.

I liked Doom 3 for what it was; it just wasn't Doom.

[ReFracture]

Wasn't it John Carmack who compared stories in a video game to stories in pornography?

[kristus]

Yes, but John Carmack has also said that he doesn't busy himself with the design of the game anymore. As that's not where he excel. (at least not from a strictly populistic angle)

[myk]

Carmack said that back when they were making Quake 3, I think. It applied to id up to and including that point, and I'd say nicely. They took a different angle for DOOM 3 and beyond, due to Half-life's effect on FPS history, apparently. DOOM 3 itself may have been influenced by the less-story philosophy a bit, but to a lesser degree, as the incorporation of story data into the game through PDAs, NPCs, and the more consistent environment all show.

Shaviro said:
The story is heavily reflected in the level design.

If you mean vaguely or lightly, yeah. UAC logos and some features or texture uses in the levels to go with the level names and progress. In short, enough decorative features to give character to the game, so that the player can feel he's in a scenario, but not more. The violent action and the progress through the levels were the main hook. Romero's love for arcade games and Carmack's technical minimalism determined this, which was possible once Hall was gone.