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Pure Hellspawn

Custom Monster and Weapons Award Thread

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Creaphis said:

The inclusion of numbers into a review automatically lowers its intellectual merit by 50%.

It's like when me and Khorus were Skullstuff reviewers and people complained about us not ending each review with a "Recommended/Not recommended"

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I don't really have a favorite custom monster, but my favorite would be some addition to the easy monsters that doesn't drop ammo but behaves in a different fashion than the imp. In Doom maps if you want to add easy enemies while not giving the player ammo you either have to stuck hitscanners outside the accessible area or use imps, which is very boring.


But my favorite weapon is definitely Diaz's rifle.

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WildWeasel said:

And I wouldn't mind writing them, either. Just give me a buzz and I'd be happy to oblige.


I hope to God AEoD/AEoD clones are left out of that category. D:

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Nems said:

I hope to God AEoD/AEoD clones are left out of that category. D:

They more than likely won't appear in such a thing; while there's clearly a lot of work being put into AEOD, I personally despise the mod because the author doesn't seem to understand that less is more, let alone how to make his mod look consistent. =P

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Personally, I'm fond of Zero Tolerance (which did get an idgames release), ww-stranger and wwhc-diaz... but I may be biased on that last one because I was the one that uploaded it to idgames. ;) Oh, and Zharkov Goes to the Store for the sheer laugh factor. :D

WildWeasel said:

They more than likely won't appear in such a thing; while there's clearly a lot of work being put into AEOD, I personally despise the mod because the author doesn't seem to understand that less is more, let alone how to make his mod look consistent. =P

Heh. Apparently, the Doomguy eats hearts!

When I tried it on CC3 MAP27, all the clips I sprinkled over the "hills" in the first room turned into civilians, and because of the clips' placement, many of them were stuck. I laughed.

Then I walked over a floor that underwent a texture change and the game crashed. Oh well.

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WildWeasel said:

They more than likely won't appear in such a thing; while there's clearly a lot of work being put into AEOD, I personally despise the mod because the author doesn't seem to understand that less is more, let alone how to make his mod look consistent. =P


Tell me about it. I've got a whole other list of things about it that bothers me that I won't go into detail about. The whole mod in general looks and feels like a clusterfuck. Like you said, it's pretty damn inconsistent. :v

The Green Herring said:

Apparently, the Doomguy eats hearts!


Doomguy's been watching too much Little Nicky, it seems. ):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFdEvNXFmXA&feature=related

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My all-time favorite is the rocket zombie. There's just something cute about the zombie whose only goal is to blow you into bits, with complete disregard for his own safety.

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JohnnyRancid said:

Actually while were talking about custom monsters, how the fuck do you fight the diabloist? You basically have your health get erased just by looking at it.

I think that's the point, so meeting one will doom you.

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I think the point is to erase the fun factor of a wad once you see it.

In addition to the diabloist, many of the supposed boss monsters are loaded with an assortment of 3 or more deadly attacks that don't demonstrate any warning before being used, which essentially makes many of them impossible to fight on single player.

Why don't people just make simple monsters? Granted there are some but a lot of the monsters in the beastiary are too elaborate. Suggestions include:

1. Something similar to an imp but throws fire balls in bursts of 3.

2. An Arachnatron with a higher rate of fire

3. Something with about the same health as an imp, but uses the same attack as an arch vile, but can't ressurect dead monsters.

4. Something that has as much health as a Hell Baron, walks slow, resurrects monsters like an archvile, but can't attack.

5. Pinkies that run faster, same health.

6. A Cyberdemon that shoots one rocket at a time, but it homes into you with a wider turning circle than a revenant's.

7. Maybe something like a mobile Icon of sin. Lots of health, spawns a random monster once in a while. Doesn't have it's own attack besides that.

8. Cross between a cacodemon and a PE, shoots fireballs, but spawns lost souls when it dies.

9. A Hell Knight/Satyr with a chainsaw

10. A Spider Mastermind that shoots plasma instead of a chaingun

11. An Arachnatron that shots a chaingun instead of plasma

12. A lost soul that can bite AND shoot fireballs, depending on what it feels like doing first.

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If a monster author happens to make his creation look like one of the things above, he/she'll then DECORATE the critter to act accordingly. Not behaviour is the obstacle (the examples you put can well be done in Dehacked), but graphics. At the very least you can import a more generic-looking monster from the bestiary and give it a personalized behaviour. The chaingun arachnotron can be just a half-sized spiderdemon with the same baby face.

The point of the diabolists is to erase you.

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JohnnyRancid said:

I think the point is to erase the fun factor of a wad once you see it.

In addition to the diabloist, many of the supposed boss monsters are loaded with an assortment of 3 or more deadly attacks that don't demonstrate any warning before being used, which essentially makes many of them impossible to fight on single player.

Why don't people just make simple monsters? Granted there are some but a lot of the monsters in the beastiary are too elaborate. Suggestions include:

1. Something similar to an imp but throws fire balls in bursts of 3.

2. An Arachnatron with a higher rate of fire

3. Something with about the same health as an imp, but uses the same attack as an arch vile, but can't ressurect dead monsters.

4. Something that has as much health as a Hell Baron, walks slow, resurrects monsters like an archvile, but can't attack.

5. Pinkies that run faster, same health.

6. A Cyberdemon that shoots one rocket at a time, but it homes into you with a wider turning circle than a revenant's.

7. Maybe something like a mobile Icon of sin. Lots of health, spawns a random monster once in a while. Doesn't have it's own attack besides that.

8. Cross between a cacodemon and a PE, shoots fireballs, but spawns lost souls when it dies.

9. A Hell Knight/Satyr with a chainsaw

10. A Spider Mastermind that shoots plasma instead of a chaingun

11. An Arachnatron that shots a chaingun instead of plasma

12. A lost soul that can bite AND shoot fireballs, depending on what it feels like doing first.



1. Fox Imp
2. Amachotron (fires 2x plasma)
8. Cacoelemental (spawns caco babies)

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Where are those? Is there a resource somewhere other than the realm667 beastiary? Mind that I don't often shuffle around in zdoom.org territory which I imagine these monsters are found in.

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The Cacolich is pretty tight. Although I like it more for its appearance than its behavior. I didn't think it was possible to really make something look more odd and creepy than the original Cacodemon.

And I'm not sure if this has been done, but a Baron of Hell with mechanical parts like a Cyberdemon would be pretty tight. Basically a tiny, but different looking Cyberdemon that could shoot revenant rockets.

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It has been done; check out Eriance's Cybruiser!
You should find it either in the revamped E1 of Demon Eclipse (don't know if it has been released to /Idgames yet though) or Tormentor's Bestiary side.

Btw, speaking of the Cacolich:


I'm working on a (IMHO) better looking version of it... I'm quite sure that it will take some time to finish those sprites though, as it isn't my main priority ATM.

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I should never underestimate the fact that the Doom community has probably made every monster possible from existing resources. :P

Also? That new Cacolich? That looks fucking sick. Good job on that.

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JohnnyRancid said:

Where are those? Is there a resource somewhere other than the realm667 beastiary? Mind that I don't often shuffle around in zdoom.org territory which I imagine these monsters are found in.


I encountered those monsters in GZScoreDoom. Plenty of new monsters to play around with. Try doing 1Monsters.wad with them, it's fun.

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JohnnyRancid said:

Actually while were talking about custom monsters, how the fuck do you fight the diabloist? You basically have your health get erased just by looking at it. I've played a Skulltag invasion wad with a bunch of these things and I couldn't figure out how to defend myself from em without consistently having my ass handed to me.

Well, the Diabolist should be dealt the same way as the Arch-Vile, you have to hide. But here you have to be really quick, shoot him and hide before he has a chance to set you ablaze.

Esselfortium in ZPack E2M9 the fight is very hard but doable, since you have cover, health and armor.
Try not to take the Megasphere until the very end ( the part with Arch-Viles ), or you can use the secret which holds another Megasphere.
By far the hardest boss fight in ZPack, for sure.

Edit : I just recorded a demo showing it is beatable in Ultra-Violence, Pistol Start.
http://membres.lycos.fr/wilou84/Doom/Demos/Single/ZPack/zpacke2m9-max-654-wh.zip
( Right click --> Save target as... if normal click doesn't work )
Recorded with ZDoom 2.2.0. Used the latest ZPack version from /idgames.

In recent Invasion wads ( like Armageddon 2 ) on Skulltag, map authors put like 3 Diabolists in open-wide areas, you just die and die again and you can't hide at all. It's lame :/

Vader : really nice sprites, as always :)

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Favourite weak monster: Shadow

Favourite medium monster: Hell Warrior

Favourite strong monster: Bruiser Demon

Favourite Monster Design: Satyr

Favourite of my own monsters: Roach (still unfinished :/ )

Favourite weapon: Repeater, just from the concept and design, ignoring the fact that it can obliterate a cyberdemon in fairly short order. (Runner up is the KDiZD Rifle, just 'cause it's a good all-around weapon :) )

I seriously don't know why everyone says the Beastiary monsters are overused. Are they any more used than the Imp, Demon, Baron of Hell, Mancubus, etc.?

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My favorite Monsters are-

Weak- Blood Demon (It's still a pinky but better)
Medium- Hectebus (Black Mancy)
Strong- Tied between Thamuz and Archon of Hell.

Reasons?
Blood Demon cause it's a definet Hell based creature, don't care on the version though.
Hectebus cause of the additional health + shots, damage is quite the same but definetly puts you on the run.
Thamuz cause it's a Cyberdemon that definetly puts hide and seek skills to the test (damn monsters loves the fire attack and the more then dangerous homing bomb), you can't stay still or strafe like the normal Cyb.
Archon cause it looks awesome and uses both hands with attacking (attack with one hand then the other) with both range and melee. (I could be wrong, but it is still a choice).

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Ghastly_dragon said:

I seriously don't know why everyone says the Beastiary monsters are overused. Are they any more used than the Imp, Demon, Baron of Hell, Mancubus, etc.?


That's a good point. I suppose that commonly-used devices are considered as "overused" until they have finally been used so much that they're considered as basic to the medium. At this point, nobody would be bothered by their presence, but nobody would be too excited either. When was the last time you thought, "Oh wow, an archvile!"

In this light, it's not really fair to call a certain Beastiary monster "over-used" if it's just being used as another monster to flesh out the project's rogues gallery. If the monster was used even more, then there would be no problem.

But, another factor: maybe it's fair to call a device over-used if it's used quite often but the artist is treating the device as something new and exciting. If a mapper's usage of a Beastiary monster implies that the player is supposed to think, "Oh wow, an archvile sprite-edit!" then yeah.

This really is an interesting subject for me, and relevant to my mapping. Personally, I feel little interest in making levels that follow the traditional themes - tech base, hell cave, etc. - without subverting those themes in some way, so I try to base maps around novel concepts. However, it takes a very clever person to invent an entirely new device and I end up planning maps that are in some ways derivative of other novel maps, such as Null Space by Russell Pearson or Temple of Chaos 2 by AgentSpork. I feel that I can justify this when there are only a small handful of maps along these lines, and about 5000 tech bases on Mars. But then again, if I want the player to think that my Null Space of Chaos map is novel, when the ideas present therein are already well-known, it would be quite fair to consider my use of these devices as "lame."

Null Space of Chaos isn't just a random example... it's actually the plan for my CC4 map and now that I realize this I feel very ashamed.

(But it'll be totally awesome. Just wait.)

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Creaphis said:

When was the last time you thought, "Oh wow, an archvile!"

Every time one of them pops out from nowhere and proceeds to kill the hell out of me.

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Favorite Monsters:

Weak:
Suicide Bomber
Super Shotgun Guy
Stone Imp
Plasma Zombie
Rocket Zombie
Imp Warlord

Medium:

Hectebus
Tortured Soul (Pain Elemental that spits out poison clouds)
Nightmare Demon (Grey demons, found in Simplicity
Rail Arachnotron
Cybruiser
Hell Warrior (Shielded orange barons on KDiZD)
Arachnophyte
Afrit

Hard:

Demolisher
Bruiser Demon
Archon of Hell
Cyber Mastermind

Ok, that's a LOT of custom monsters.

Weapons:

Rice Shooter from Zharkov Goes to the Store
Bloodsphere from Zen Dynamics
"Aeolus" Dual Plasma Sub-machine Guns from Zen Dynamics
"Scorcher" Flame Weapon from Zen Dynamics
Multi Projectile Weapon seen in ZBloodpack, part of Weapons Resource Wad

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