RTCW . AI files

[Zoost]

Do you guys think Doom3 will uses the same .AI files as they do in RTCW like:

trigger action3
{
trigger counter5 snd_fueling
trigger nazi2a go_down_elevator1
trigger nazi8 hearing_on
}

trigger action3a
{
trigger counter5 snd_fueling
alertentity toggle_pa_trig
trigger mech2 voice_reg
trigger mech1 voice_reg
trigger nazi8 hearing_on
}

trigger action4
{
trigger nazi6a go
}
nazi18
{
attributes
{
starting_health 40
aim_accuracy 0.2
aim_skill 0.6
}

spawn
{
statetype alert
accum 0 bitreset 0


I'm afraid this is what they will implement.

To quote myself:"That's why I hope they going to put some real effort in AI. Then it would also be nice If the others (enemies) came to hunt you. - In stead of hunting enemies of whom their position can be "guessed". I image different approaches of being hunt by different type of "others". Not like in MP, because most people on-line don't have the patience or brains or ping to explore the place and think of a good way to kill (or have peace talks with."

[Lord FlatHead]

Well let's take a look at some of these files... Since RTCW uses the same camera system as DOOM, it's pretty interesting to see the .camera files in the pak0.pak.

cameraPathDef {
time 15.000000
camera_Interpolated {
time 15000
type 1
name position
baseVelocity 16.533333
startPos ( 320.000000 1088.000000 72.000000 )
endPos ( 320.000000 1336.000000 72.000000 )
}

Apparently this is a camera that goes up on the y axis a bit, then does some other stuff I have no clue about. Let's hope these files can be done easily in the editor.

Anyway, on to the .AI files. What I think is really interesting is the very detailed properties you can give to each monster. For example, here's a monster definition from the church.ai file :

elite2
{
attributes
{
fov 240
aim_accuracy 0.5
starting_health 60
camper 1.0
}

spawn
{
accum 0 bitreset 0
statetype alert
takeweapon all
giveweapon weapon_sten
setammo ammo_9mm 999
setclip sten 32
selectweapon weapon_sten
}

trigger go
{
accum 0 bitset 0
wait 5
runtomarker e2spot1 player noattack
}

death
{
trigger coffincover1a objective3
}
...
}


I'm guessing this is about one of the leather-clad SS women. A 240 degree field of view means she can see practically everything that happens around her - which is kind of a cheat. She starts off with 60 health, and a Sten gun with 32 bullets in the clip. And when she dies, a trigger called "coffincover1a" is activated and an objective is achieved.

I guess. I've really never looked at the .ai files before. Though the amount of control over everything is getting me very excited.

[Zaldron]

Apparently this is a camera that goes up on the y axis a bit, then does some other stuff I have no clue about. Let's hope these files can be done easily in the editor.

More like you'll be able to animate one in MAX or Maya and then export it to the game. Much easier since you can do so much shit with them in this programs.

[dsm]

Hmmm, the "AI" in RtCW is supposed to simulate soldiers - that means humans.
"Doom 3" on the other hand will feature monsters - even the former humans won't act quite like actual human characters.

My conclusion: AI in "Doom 3" will NOT be the same as in RtCW, we are more likely to see a more animal-like behaviour in these critters (I wouldn't mind if "former humans" acted similarly to human troops, e.g. providing cover fire for each other - as long as they also display animal characteristics.)

[Zaldron]

REAL hunting AI it's a bit hard to accomplish right. It's much better to fake it like Thief does, because lost/stuck/suicided monsters aren't that scary :)

[dsm]

Btw Zaldron didn't you once say that "AI" wasn't the same thing as enemy behaviour?

Would you mind telling me again what AI really is?

[Zoost]

Zaldron?

[Zaldron]

When I did say that? Nevermind.

All right, an AI is basically any system that attempts to come up with a result based on data, and is able to improve the calculations as it receives more data and compares it to the archievements it's been getting based with those results. Is even able to discard the data that somehow doesn't fit with the natural tendency (avoiding stupid behavior).

Since all enemies in games already have some experience based in what they've been doing the last years and so, programmers are forced to give the "AI" a certain cause/consecuence database. Stuff like "grenade in proximity" results in "get the fuck away".

For an AI to actually understand this on it's own, it should die roughly 40 times before realizing the grenade is way too much powerful, and retreat is the best choice. After 200 retreats, it would realize it's not supposed to give the back to your opponent, because it's a too easy target. After 3000 attempts, it should be able escape facing you. If it's a super complex AI, it will realize it's better to kick back the grenade.

As you can see, this is not appliable in games. It's hard to code, to implement and it's not really useful at all. Fixed behavior that takes cue from your weapon preferences and tactics is much better.

[dsm]

When I did say that? Nevermind.

It's quite a while ago, probably months ago. I don't recall the exact threads, but I remember that you explained the AI on a number of occasions.

Anyway, thanks for the explanation Zaldron, you rule :-)

[Zaldron]

We cannot even simulate the behavior of a bee yet. Now picture a sadistic minion of Hell hunting a hi-tech marine.

Yeah, right.

[AngelOfDeath]

REAL hunting AI it's a bit hard to accomplish right. It's much better to fake it like Thief does, because lost/stuck/suicided monsters aren't that scary :)

What did Thief do to fake it

[DooMBoy]

REAL hunting AI it's a bit hard to accomplish right. It's much better to fake it like Thief does, because lost/stuck/suicided monsters aren't that scary :)

What did Thief do to fake it

It's fake in the way that the soldiers who hear you and go to find you tend to wander directly in the path of objects such as a streetlamp or a barrel and get stuck there.

[Zaldron]

Right, the soldiers on Thief always know where are you. They just "ignore" that because the coder says so, they just stick to chase anomalous sound spots. They have no sense of contrast, allowing you, a black hooded figure, to hide against a completely white background as long as you're on the "darkness". They don't recognize objects positions and conditions like doors and missing treasury. They tend to easily forget strange noises, even if they're obviously human-sourced.

They're so stupid in many cases, you can do a lot with just regular arrows and the blackjack. That's the only way of beating the game in Expert mode, exploit their bugs.

[AngelOfDeath]

Oh what i wouldnt give for Thief 3

[Zaldron]

Don't take me wrong, the Thief series is one of my favorite games ever. I can't wait for DX2 and T3 ^_^