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Kyka

4 level ZDoom Mapset (Beta)

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Yeah. So here they are. 4 maps. They have been pretty thoroughly playtested by a bunch of people, so they should be pretty playable. I probably should mention the maps are big and very detailed, but I have tried pretty hard to keep the style and the gameplay reasonably straightforward.

The only thing that hasn't been done is difficulty settings. The maps are set to UV, will add the other difficulties once I finalize UV (depending on feedback). The maps should be challenging but not too insane. I am aiming for AV style gameplay, with the occasional burst of HR.

Screenies:

Map01

http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lab6pngcn7.png
http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lab3pngcw3.png

Map02

http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lev02bpngpm5.png
http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lev02cpngxb4.png

Map03

http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=map04dgj2.png
http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=map04bdr4.png

Map04

http://img61.imageshack.us/my.php?image=map04ffi0.png
http://img61.imageshack.us/my.php?image=map04ane1.png


Thanks to Jodwin, Dreadopp, KingKill33, Jimi91, gggmork and Creaphis for playtesting, as well as loads of feedback.

Last thing. Make sure you play these maps with the music ON. The music is by Jimi91 (Maps 1,2 and 4) and stewboy (Map 3) and it is awesome.

Anyway, thats it. Go play 'em. Feel free to share any feedback, criticisms, suggestions, thoughts etc.

UPDATED Link: http://www.speedyshare.com/933384612.html

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I think you did a good job, albeit these maps aren't my cup of tea. Only played the first map, kind of lost interest on the next 3 maps. Sorry :(. The first map was more frustrating than fun, particular with the sheer numbers of cubicles you have to seave through at the start. Whenever I came into a bigger room, it was like a sigh of relief. Atmosphere is fantastic, enough said. There aren't many variation in textures however, they were used quite nicely through details and architecture. There were nice trap-ideas in Map01 (The archviles room was awesome :P). I swear I heard those musics before somewhere... it's pretty cool. The difficulty's good I think. I played on HMP.

I guess other people's feedback would be a lot more valuable than mine but yeah, overall it's not bad, I'm sure others would enjoy it a lot more than I did. :)

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If it's any help, level 1 is the most crowded and cramped. The next 3 are a lot more open, and (imo) play a lot better.

Thanks for the comments. :)

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I admit I haven't downloaded the wad yet, but considering the visible emphasis on detail...from what I see in the screenshots, the design style seems somewhat mismatched and cluttery. In some areas there are tons of tiny structures all stuck together, while in others I see huge stretches of a repeating ceiling-light flat, big bare walls that could have been great places for detail that doesn't intrude on the player's space at all, textures and flats that don't match, lighting that's not smoothed out, etc...I'm not trying to bring you down, even though it probably sounds like it, it just seems like an oddly misguided effort: tons of small things packed together, with less focus on some of the bigger aspects of design. :\

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Despite the critique there are a lot of good aspects of this wad yet to be mentioned.

I think it's typical that when there is this much detail, people don't think to reward you for it, but to tell you why it's not absolutely flawless. Keep that in mind.

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JohnnyRancid said:

I think it's typical that when there is this much detail, people don't think to reward you for it, but to tell you why it's not absolutely flawless. Keep that in mind.

Honestly speaking, and not related to this wad in particular but all wads, I don't really see the point in paying huge attention to detail(ing) anyway. It's the gameplay you're playing, not the vertex count...

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Gameplay is the most important thing, but a level with good gameplay and detail just makes it even sweeter.

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I've played the first map so far, and I must say it's actually pretty interesting. There's a lot of things in regards to detail and texturing I personally think could have been done a lot better, but I'm not going to complain about that too much. From what I've played, the gameplay seems pretty interesting and creative. It actually left me wondering what was going to happen next, which is pretty rare for a Doom map set these days. The first map wasn't overly difficult, but it wasn't exactly cake either. :P The spooky music really helps the immersion.

I'll try and finish the rest of it and let you know what I think. :D

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Jodwin said:

Honestly speaking, and not related to this wad in particular but all wads, I don't really see the point in paying huge attention to detail(ing) anyway. It's the gameplay you're playing, not the vertex count...

Who said anything about vertex count? He said himself it was high in detail, showing that he had put an emphasis on it, and I said it looked cluttery and mismatched to me. Good "detailing" (really, I don't much like using that term for it, as the process really goes along with architecture, lighting, texturing, and so many other aspects of design) has absolutely zero to do with data count and everything to do with the appearance that results from it. I mean, it definitely looks like he's got "enough" (if there must be a scale) lines and sectors, sure, but I think they could be put to better use, personally.

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AgentSpork said:

I've played the first map so far, and I must say it's actually pretty interesting. There's a lot of things in regards to detail and texturing I personally think could have been done a lot better, but I'm not going to complain about that too much. From what I've played, the gameplay seems pretty interesting and creative. It actually left me wondering what was going to happen next, which is pretty rare for a Doom map set these days. The first map wasn't overly difficult, but it wasn't exactly cake either. :P The spooky music really helps the immersion.

I'll try and finish the rest of it and let you know what I think. :D


Thanks. :)

esselfortium said:

I admit I haven't downloaded the wad yet, but considering the visible emphasis on detail...from what I see in the screenshots, the design style seems somewhat mismatched and cluttery. In some areas there are tons of tiny structures all stuck together, while in others I see huge stretches of a repeating ceiling-light flat, big bare walls that could have been great places for detail that doesn't intrude on the player's space at all, textures and flats that don't match, lighting that's not smoothed out, etc...I'm not trying to bring you down, even though it probably sounds like it, it just seems like an oddly misguided effort: tons of small things packed together, with less focus on some of the bigger aspects of design. :\


I remember you said this to me about MAP01 when I first came to Doomworld, and in truth, at that time, you were exactly right. So I spent months reworking that map. It is still not perfect, I admit, but it is probably as good as it is going to get, given how cramped the original design was. I think it is still a pretty interesting map and (hopefully) not too frustrating.

I think Maps 2, 3, and 4 are not overly guilty of any of these things. They are far more open, they are focused much more on 'overall' design rather than tiny details, and the gameplay is much stronger (imo).

I am happy to accept your criticism, in fact it is criticism like this that has made me improve my mapping so much, and I understand that some people will like these maps, some people won't. But to say these things now without even downloading the maps and at least giving them a chance is maybe a little harsh. :/

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I just got a chance to play through these maps (skimmed the last two...I'll get to them later on). My thoughts are pretty much the same as AgentSpork's. The gameplay was pretty fun for the most part. As far as detailing goes, it didn't look bad at all, but I can see where essel is coming from. You've got the tiny detailing stuff down pretty good, that's for sure. But I think everything else inbetween leaves something to be desired. What I guess I mean is the 'big stuff'; the main architecture and everything that goes with it. If you could achieve a balance with this small detailing and impressive architecture, your maps would look really awesome. I think you've got the talent and I'm sure you'll improve over time ;)

By the way, I noticed that on each map you had unknown texture errors. You might want to fix those.

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esselfortium said:

Who said anything about vertex count? He said himself it was high in detail, showing that he had put an emphasis on it, and I said it looked cluttery and mismatched to me. Good "detailing" (really, I don't much like using that term for it, as the process really goes along with architecture, lighting, texturing, and so many other aspects of design) has absolutely zero to do with data count and everything to do with the appearance that results from it. I mean, it definitely looks like he's got "enough" (if there must be a scale) lines and sectors, sure, but I think they could be put to better use, personally.

I didn't mean "vertex count" literally but in a sarcastic way to address detailing, although it's a fitting critic for some of the areas in these maps. Generally speaking I don't really get huge attention to detail regardless of what kind of detail it is (architecture, texturing, whatever), but making ridiculously small detail is the "worst" kind IMHO. Of course everyone is allowed to do whatever they want with their maps, but making detail alone some kind of a goal is ridiculous.

If map looks good then fine, but really, make sure that it plays well first.

Oh well, enough derailing this thread with stuff that isn't particularly related to this wad (alone).

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Thanks everyone for the feedback.

Heh. Even reading reading through these posts here is making me think about what I can do better, what I can change etc etc, which can only mean good things for future maps. I think that each successive map I make gets better than the last (imo at least), which I think is mostly due to input from you guys. :)

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So in other words, by the time you've fleshed out this mapset, you may want to remake the first few level or two...

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Hmmm... if I had to summarize your wad in 2 words I would say puzzle doom :-P, because in map 01 I just don’t have the patience to search for the right way and in level 02 I don’t know how to go on at the beginning. These levels are for those, who like to search for their way first, but I just like more linear levels with the “run and gun only“ feel. So, it depends on the taste, I guess.

To the graphics: I think they look ok. The detail is perfect, but what is not so optimal is the lack of color, especially in map 03. Everything looks so grey, but maybe this is also some sort of taste and I just like colorful levels.

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kristus said:

please people. Stop using imageshack #¤%&#"!


Yes. This. I have some hosting, I will seriously provide some space for people to upload images and other whatnots, because clicking through to imageshack/photobucket/whatever shitty file hosting site is pretty agitating.

Edit: Just adding a note to say that interested folks should PM me if they have a need for this.

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Jodwin said:

Honestly speaking, and not related to this wad in particular but all wads, I don't really see the point in paying huge attention to detail(ing) anyway. It's the gameplay you're playing, not the vertex count...

Yet maps like these likely wouldn't have attracted the attention needed for people to have gotten around to playing it to realize that fact, I'll suspect.

Vertex count is indeed more than superficial, is what I'm saying.

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TheeXile said:

Yet maps like these likely wouldn't have attracted the attention needed for people to have gotten around to playing it to realize that fact, I'll suspect.

Vertex count is indeed more than superficial, is what I'm saying.


True.

Oh well, hopefully someone out there actually played through them and perhaps even liked 'em. They aren't crap, they are just different from what people are used to I guess.

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I quite enjoyed them. The first level plays a bit like half life (if I'm thinking of the right game for ps2 probably) in that its more of a trek through an interesting environment than twitchy gameplay. There is really difficult gameplay later on though, though at an hour or so of play time, its more of a thing to do with saves than memorizing everything or max demoing in one go probably (since death at 55 minutes means repeating those 55 minutes over and over if you don't use saves) so in that respect its also like half life. And some uv parts can be quite challenging so death is likely, especially on an unmemorized first run.
But where these maps really shine is the detail; gaping bloody holes in the wall, folds on blankets, etc, almost makes you forget its made in 2.5d in places. And there's a lot of neat/unique ideas.
I actually didn't get lost much despite the huge size.

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Thanks for your comments gggmork. It's funny you mentioned Half-Life, as that game was a big influence on these levels. I was really trying to create a Half-Life feel and progression. Remember the train? And stepping onto the teleportation machine that took you to all these crazy places? The monster enclosures? The dormitories right at the start.

F.E.A.R. was the other big game influence. The blood sections, mirror images of real places etc. (levels 3 and 4)

Thanks for all your playtesting too. The progression is much smoother in these levels than it would have otherwise been. :)

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I did map2 speed in 10:05, which is a kinda silly thing to do because it doesn't do the ambiance or detail justice. I wonder how long these levels took to make. zdoom 2.2.0

actually looks fairly slow, after watching it, all well, didn't have the latter half fully memorized.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/b520bj

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another whine about hosting here! speedyshare seems to block my country (czech republic) completely and redirects me to some shitty ad site (funny-games.biz). it's probably possible to work around the ip check, but you might consider using some hosting that doesn't block your prospective players. :)

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gggmork said:

I did map2 speed in 10:05, which is a kinda silly thing to do because it doesn't do the ambiance or detail justice. I wonder how long these levels took to make. zdoom 2.2.0

actually looks fairly slow, after watching it, all well, didn't have the latter half fully memorized.


Thanks for the demo gggmork. It is always cool to watch someone else playing one of your own levels. And it's not a bad run actually, for such a big level.

dew said:

another whine about hosting here! speedyshare seems to block my country (czech republic) completely and redirects me to some shitty ad site (funny-games.biz). it's probably possible to work around the ip check, but you might consider using some hosting that doesn't block your prospective players. :)



Could someone suggest a good file sharing site that would be less likely to do crap like this? Thanks for letting me know. :)

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Kyka said:

Could someone suggest a good file sharing site that would be less likely to do crap like this?

http://www.filefront.com/

EDIT:

dew said:

speedyshare seems to block my country (czech republic) completely and redirects me to some shitty ad site (funny-games.biz).

Look up right of the ad. There is something like “continue to www.speedyshare.com“. Click on it and you come to the download. So it was when I was at sendspace. Maybe it's different and will not work for you.

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I don’t know why the maps are made for ZDoom. I neither saw a slope nor a special monster.

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Deeforce said:


Thanks for that :)

ducon said:

I don’t know why the maps are made for ZDoom. I neither saw a slope nor a special monster.


Heh. Just wait til the second episode. The first episode is pretty much stock Doom2 vanilla style. But the next episode will have new monsters and the odd slope... nothing too over the top. Along the lines of 'simplicity'. You re right though. This could have been Boom compatible. But the later levels are not.

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