Doom Fails to Make List Big Time

[Coopersville]

http://blog.wired.com/games/2009/02/super-mario-kar.html

Guinness Book's Best Games List

1) Super Mario Kart
2) Tetris
3) Grand Theft Auto
4) Super Mario World
5) Zelda Ocarina of Time
6) Halo
7) Resident Evil IV
8) Final Fantasy XII
9) Street Fighter II
10) GoldenEye
11) Super Mario 64
12) Tomb Raider
13) Metal Gear Solid
14) Call of Duty 4
15) Sonic the Hedgehog 2
16) GTA San Andreas
17) Super Mario Bros
18) Zelda: A Link to the Past
19) Gran Turismo
20) Final Fantasy VII
21) Pro Evolution Soccer 4
22) The Orange Box
23) Lego Star Wars Complete Saga
24) Tekken 2
25) Wii Sports
26) Pokemon Red/Blue
27) Guitar Hero
28) Project Gotham Racing 4
29) Super Mario Galaxy
30) Resident Evil
31) Ico
32) Chrono Trigger
33) Gunstar Heroes
34) Soul Calibur
35) Advance Wars
36) Ridge Racer
37) Super Metroid
38) Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
39) GTA Vice City
40) BioShock
41) Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
42) The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
43) God of War
44) Sega Rally Championship
45) Starfox 64
46) Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
47) WarioWare Inc
48) Saturn Bomberman
49) Crash Bandicoot
50) Outrun 2

[Vermil]

Well, the list is of console games, not PC, so it's hardly suprising:

"Super Mario Kart is a great game, but the best game ever? That's the claim made by the editors of the top 50 console games of all time list featured in the 2009 version of the Guinness Book of World Records: Gamer's Edition."

[TheDarkArchon]

Even then, the list is pretty bad

[Maes]

What's the maximum time span of that list anyway? 8 years?

[Jodwin]

Yeah, especially if it's for console games only and there's no Megaman 2 or Kirby's Adventure, and why the hell is Link's Awakening there instead of the original Legend of Zelda?


Not to mention all the modern shitfests that I haven't bothered to play because modern games suck anyway (that, and not having had any consoles since SNES).

[Dgon92]

Bah, this list is very poorly made. There are several games that should've been on here on the first place, including Doom.

1. Super Mario Kart is #1 and Super Mario Bros. is #17. How can that be possible? If anything, these games should be switched. Super Mario Kart is a very fun game that you can play with a friend, and has all kinds of wacky humor and weapons you can use on your opponents, but there should be no other Super Mario game that should succeed Super Mario Bros. That game kickstarted Mario's career and even saved the entire video game industry, because of how good it is. I'd like to see any other game that did that.

2. Final Fantasy XII is higher than Final Fantasy VII. Wait, what? Sure, Final Fantasy XII is pretty good, but other FF games are far better, preferably VII, VI, or even IV. All of those games have great and beautiful stories and moving scenes, not to mention great gameplay and graphics at the time. Trust me, I've beaten around the FF fan bush and none of them think FFXII is the best.

3. Halo is on there, and Doom and Wolfenstein 3d is not. That doesn't make sense. Halo was immensely popular when it came out, but it wasn't historically significant when it came to FPSs, or even console FPSs (Goldeneye was a very good game with great multiplayer, no less). Wolfenstein 3d is undoubtedly the grandaddy of FPSs, and Doom only made the genre better by introducing a brand new engine that amazed everybody at the time, creating atmosphere and immersion. Halo is great with online multiplayer, but even Doom beat it to the punch with online deathmatches. The fact that Halo beats Doom or even Wolfenstein 3d does not have much logic, if at all.

Furthermore, video game lists are not very relevant, because it's created by one person, on the basis of that person's opinion. What you think is the "best game ever" could actually be the worst to someone else. The actual "best game ever" is nowhere to be found, because there is no such thing. The game quality is based on the mind of its beholder, and there should be no critics and lists to tell him or her otherwise.

[TheeXile]

The fact that Final Fantasy XII is #8 and Shadow of the Colossus isn't even on the list (among other blatant discrepancies) immediately discredits the entire fucking thing.

[TimeOfDeath]

OMG SUPER MARIO KART!@@!$@!
Cool. I think I like Doom a bit better, though.

[Mithral_Demon]

I swear that in general, The Guiness is irrelevant, no use wasting more paper on a book to tell us this "so-and-so" made the biggest piece of shit? Have they heard of the Internet?

But other then that...

Doom should be on that list, with it and Wolf3D, there wouldn't of been Halo for all that is known.
Super Mario Kart isn't the greatest... It's fun, but not the easiest to handle, and if anyone should make a list of games, get opinions by people and don't go "this so-and-so game should be first cause i'm an idiot saying it's better with out having others help" and not have a specific order on which is better... Just as long it's on the list.

[Maes]

Mithral_Demon said:

I swear that in general, The Guiness is irrelevant.

Not so with Guinness per-se ;-)

[EarthQuake]

Any "best games" list that doesn't have Doom in at least the top 5 has no credibility whatsoever.

[myk]

"DOOM, #4 best table-top game ever."

"DOOM, #2 best young children's game of the century."

[Quasar]

Super Metroid and SotN #37 and 38? Pfft. More like #1 and #2 ;)

[Maes]

Many of these "top x games lists" are flawed in that they either:

1. Only include console games (much more probable if they appear on a major "gaming" publication that focuses only on specific platforms). Not bad per-se, PC and Home Computer magazines had compiled such lists for years, usually highly platform specific.
   
2. Have a limited timespan, and only include (or include a majority of) recent games. That also explains how Wii games which have only been around 1-2 years max can be included when there are countless other classic multi-platform games before them. And also how a "top x" list for year N be entirely different than that for year N-1.
   
3. Can be entirely based on games available on a single platform (that lists smells heavily of Nintendo, and minorly of Xbox. Not a single Taito game, which is a major "WTF" when you include the magic words "...of all ages". Also no RTS titles such as Command & Conquer or Warcraft...or hits such as Diablo and WoW, which makes "console" and "nintendo" sound even more probable.
   
4. Are based on games-on-demand services statistics. This would explain the previous two points, too.
   
5. Can be based entirely on sales, but in that case Tetris and Myst would be #1. Again, restrictions on age/platform may occur even in this case.
   

Put all of the above together...yeah, you got it right: such lists are complete bullshit. I wouldn't be surprised if it reflects just the writer's personal preferences.

BTW, what credentials would get anyone "appointed" as a "prestigious" writer for the "gamer's edition" of Guinness book of records? At least non-gaming records must be academically referenced, traceable in news, or at least verified in-situ by a Guinness committee. Think that any of that applies here?

[Splatter]

I had lots of fun playing the various Mario Kart games. I also had lots of fun playing Doom. Tagging your buddy with a green shell while he tries to dodge and sidestepping fireballs to smack-down a horde of imps with your trusty super shotty are satisfying in different ways, though. What standard can be used to say which title's "better"?

If you ask which was more influential, it'd probably be Doom.
If you ask which sold more copies, it'd probably be the Mario Kart series.

But neither of those says which is better. I don't think there's any way a top games list can be made that makes any sense, unless maybe you restrict it to a single genre.

[eargosedown]

Coopersville said:

4) Super Mario World

That game was, and still is, made of win.

That being said - Halo made the list? LAWL

[Creaphis]

The list doesn't even feature Kolibri - arguably the finest hummingbird-based shooter for the 32X!

Anyways, Guinness books haven't thrilled me lately. They're fun trashy entertainment, but I miss the little paperbacks that were actually somewhat comprehensive and authoritative.

[GreyGhost]

Radar Rat Race - arguably the best rodent simulator to grace the Vic20 - didn't make the list either, which means that publication has zero credibility.

[Dgon92]

Jubian Recro from the blog said:

Ummm... wot no Doom!

How can the game that is universally credited with really popularising the whole FPS genre and being the first proper game with deathmatch be missed off this list?

The Guinness Book just took a huge dive in credibility. This list is shockingly awful for many reasons.

At least there's someone on that site that agrees with us.

EDIT: Also...

Sarkazein from the blog said:

Doom was originally a PC game, not a console game. Of course since then, it's been ported to nearly every possible platform, but it's a PC game, and this list is for consoles only.

Yeah, I'm very glad that the PC is neglected on this list. I mean, all that stupid hunk of junk did is become home to games such as Command & Conquer, Doom, Quake, Sim City, Populous, and pretty much most of the Commodore 64 library, and the fact that you get to mod them? What kind of idea is that? Dumb, dumb, dumb. Let's give this to the "this is the game and you can't do anything to change it" console games. Those seems to be the only games the industry cares about anyway. [/sarcasm]

[Csonicgo]

Has anyone taken Guinness seriously?

I remember when I was in middle school, the school just got a copy of the Guinness book for that year and some kids grabbed the book searching for such middle school curiosities as "biggest boobs" or "largest penis". what we got was "biggest tragedy" about some SUV's flipping over from bad tires.

Oh, and longest neck. always the same tribal woman with rings.

[Coopersville]

Doom was originally a PC game, not a console game. Of course since then, it's been ported to nearly every possible platform, but it's a PC game, and this list is for consoles only.

I still call bullshit because they listed GTA1, which was a) On the PC first and b) A pile of crap on the PSX.

[Gez]

"The Orange Box" is a single game now?

[Vermil]

The Orange Box was the only release of Half Life 2 on consoles, so technically, it was on those platforms.

[kristus]

Long neck? http://media.ugoto.com/pictures/worlds-longest-neck-gross-36f.jpg

[brinks]

That list is absolutely atrocious, but the fact that Gunstar Heroes is on there helps redeem it a little.

[Edward850]

Vermil said:

The Orange Box was the only release of Half Life 2 on consoles, so technically, it was on those platforms.

Nope: http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/halflife2/index.html

[Maes]

This list has all the seriousness of a list made by a 10 yo kid that only ever had a Wii and so thinks it's "t3h sh1t". Even if it was about console games only, still it's too limited in time span and obviously doesn't take historical importance into account.

[TheeXile]

brinks said:

That list is absolutely atrocious, but the fact that Gunstar Heroes is on there helps redeem it a little.

Agree'd. In fact, if I can get a hold of the genesis ROM, I'm going to try to play it again.

But don't get me wrong. Other than that, the list way off the mark.

[Vermil]

Edward850 said:

Nope: http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/halflife2/index.html

Me Bad. I didn't know that...

[Creaphis]

Is there another (horribly skewed) list of "best 50 PC games" in that book, I wonder?