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ryaxnb

Best sourceports/Needs most improvement ports/Ports you use the most

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Here's Part I of Flood the Boards Series (from ryaxnb). What this means is a good amount of topics will be posted today and tommorow, thus (jestingly) "flooding" the boards with interesting (hopefully) topics from myself.

So on sourceports,

Which do you think are the best 3, and the 1 or 2 that need the most improvement. Feel free to also comment on previous choices. I will also hopefully pop in to check on people's choices.

Choices:
EDGE 1.31
PrBoom 2.5.0
Prboom+ 2.5.0.1
Eternity Engine
ZDoom 2.3.0
GZDoom 2.3.0
Doomsday 1.9 Beta 6
Chocolate Doom
Risen3d
ReMooD
Doom Legacy 1.41 (not for need most improvement as it's dead)
NTDOOM
Skulltag
Zdaemon

My Best 3:
#1 PrBoom+ 2.5.0.1
The author seems genuinely excited, it has a great blend of compatibility, wad author features and end-user features. It has low system requirements and doesn't require OpenGL. It runs on Linux, and normal PrBoom runs on Mac. It has a lot of great features in addition to the boom set that should become standard in all source ports IMHO. And it's reliable.

#2 Risen3d
Simply Gorgeous Looking. The scripting isn't "there" yet, and some basic features are missing, but it looks WONDERFUL. Arguably the best reason to stick to playing basic maps that don't replace textures/enemies there is. Of course, with texture/enemy replacements, they look blocky. The near-perfect boom compatibility and reasonable support for advanced kick this in the top 3.

#3 The third choice was a hard pick between GZDOOM and Eternity. Overall, Eternity got the pick, due to my dislike for GZDOOM's complete incompatibility with DOOM compared to other ports. Also Eternity seems to have the best WAD author features.


Worst:
Doom legacy.
Broken

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As a mapper primarily, my top two favorites are ZDoom and Eternity. I use Chocolate Doom and PrBoom-Plus pretty frequently as well, though I'm not sure which of those two I would call my third favorite. I definitely get more use out of Choco, though, for testing vanilla maps :)

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Favorites are definitely Chocolate Doom, PrBoom, and Odamex. All very much win source ports.

As for the ones that need the most improvement... I'll put ReMooD on that list for the very fact that almost everything about it is broken (I do commend the fact that Ghostly does not use non-free resources in the port itself, very few ports hold their morals so highly). I'd also put ZDoom down as it needs to be made more portable, almost all SVN revisions are broken on anything but Windows, and they need to dump that FMOD crap already, or at least supplement it with support for OpenAL as an alternative.

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MikeRS said:

or at least supplement it with support for OpenAL as an alternative.

OpenAL support is currently being worked on by some guy named Chris, IIRC.

I think it all stemmed from Graf wanting to make a GPL version of GZDoom.

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Since searching these forums as well as google has not returned any decent result, I will just pose the question.

Which source port do you use the most when playing levels? Looking around I have seen many people post about their favorite port or the most advanced port, but I'm trying to gather actual usage statistics on which port is used more often for gameplay. Personally, I use prBoom+ for as many wads as I can, using other ports only when the wad has been specificially designed for them.

This goes for all supported games. If you play more Hexen maps than maps for any other game and ZDoom is your engine of choice for that, then ZDoom is your most used engine.

Some ports like ZDoom and prBoom+ will (I suspect) be higher on the list, but I'm looking for statistics for all ports. If you never touch a map that isn't playable in Vavoom, or if Skulltag maps are the only ones you can stand, then vote for those ports.

Finally, I would rather we keep separate ports separate. Since ZDoom, GZDoom, and Skulltag are extremely similar ports (all derived from ZDoom) they could be considered the same. Even though they are very similar, they are still different ports, and I would like to record them that way.

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MikeRS said:

almost all SVN revisions are broken on anything but Windows,



SVN is in development. You can't expect everything to work especially if you consider that neither Randy nor I are using Linux as a primary development platform so we have to rely on others' bug reports.

Nuxius said:

OpenAL support is currently being worked on by some guy named Chris, IIRC.



The OpenAL code still has some small problems that need to be sorted out. Plus, including it in the Windows version is not an attractive option as long as not all features of FMOD are fully supported so even if it gets added it may be source only because of the large number of additional libraries that would have to be distributed with the executable.

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I basically don't use anything except Chocolate Doom nowadays (since I'm normally working on it). So I'll just take the opportunity to say some nice things about other source ports.

1. PrBoom / PrBoom+. PrBoom is a continuation of a work stretching back to the original Boom under DOS and continuing its tradition. I admire the attention to detail and the fact that it stays true to the original game's look and feel. entryway has done a great job continuing the work with PrBoom+, and the stuff he's done with demo compatibility is absolutely incredible.

2. The Eternity Engine. Continuing the codebase of older source port, SMMU, Quasar has done a great job fixing up all the bugs I introduced and creating a port that is polished, featureful and stable.

3. ZDoom / GZDoom. I have to admit that I don't use the ZDoom-based ports very often, mostly because the Linux support always seems to have been a bit lacking. However, whenever I have used them I've always been impressed by the editing features and how people have used them to extend the game in new ways (eg. Action Doom 2). Randy and Graf Zahl have done a great job in creating stable, well-designed ports. I also think that the importance of ZDoom is understated, since without its editing features allowing new twists on the Doom gameplay, I think a lot of people would have got bored of Doom a long time ago.

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Eternity for when I want to play a wad with a good software renderer, Doomsday for most play, and Vavoom for strife and for when I feel like it. G/Zdoom only when I have to.

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ZDoom 2.2.0. I get minor, but annoying, sound lag and "clicks" when the music restarts (using timidity) with 2.3.0 so I'm sticking to 2.2.0 for now. ZDoom because I prefer software mode over to openGL and IMHO it has the best controls. Granted I haven't tried prBoom+, but for example prBoom's controls are horrible compared to ZDoom's.

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ryaxnb said:

ZDoom 2.3.0
GZDoom 2.3.0


Damn. I have ZDoom 2.3.0, but I'm still at GZDoom 1.2.0. I really need to get the update.

Given that I don't care about multiplayer (exit Skulltag, ZDaemon, and Odamex which you forgot to mention), demos/compet-n/speedrun/etc. (exit PrBoom and PrBoom+) nor 100% perfectly accurate clone of the original (exit Chocolate), that doesn't leave me with that many good ports to choose from. I'd say ZDoom/GZDoom (I don't separate between the two), Eternity and Doomsday. Needs most improvement category would be Vavoom, as I'd like to like it but it crashes far too often on my computer.

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Best: I mostly use the original DOS executables (on Windows 98), which basically aren't "source ports". I like what they offer: the simplicity, controls and solid sound and music playback. I do use other engines for some things, in this approximate order of use: ZDaemon (on-the-fly multiplayer), Boom (demo playback, a bit of playing), PrBoom (some 2-player games online), PrBoom+ (some demo stuff), ZDoom (mainly demo playback, some testing or miscellaneous use, and occasional ZDoom WADs).

Improvement: PrBoom (includes PrBoom+) could well improve its interface and the way settings are enabled or organized. It has a long history of these just piling up in places, creating clutter and the need to enable different things in different ways. Maybe it should even get itself a console.

Also, maybe Chocolate Doom could iron out some bugs, though it's getting harder for me to test because it's not fully compatible with my (Windows 98) system. not that I blame fraggle for that, though, as its primary target is more modern systems.

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Yeah, Odamex and Vavoom should probably be on the list. And technically Legacy isn't "dead" as such, it's just stalled, heh. The developers have busy real lives and don't get much time to work on it. And I think 1.42 was the last official version.

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myk said:

Also, maybe Chocolate Doom could iron out some bugs, though it's getting harder for me to test because it's not fully compatible with my (Windows 98) system. not that I blame fraggle for that, though, as its primary target is more modern systems.


A surprising number of people seem to want to run it on Win9x. You're the straw that broke the camel's back. Congrats :-)

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ZDoom is the only port I've used consistently in the last years, in all of its flavors (GZDoom, ZDoomGL, ZDaemon).

All other ports I've tried from time to time more or less fell into the "one-time gimmick" category for me, all having something I deemed to be too broken or limited to keep using consistently.

If I were to point some obvious pluses for ZDoom I'd say the controls, interface, and compatibility.

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Because of the way I control Doom, I needed a sourceport that supported cycling through weapons. As I also have a Mac, the only 2 sourceports that I could use were ZDoom and Doomsday, and as Doomsday ran slow as soon as there were a bunch of enemies on the screen, I went for ZDoom.

Unfortunately, it's not an official ZDoom port though, and it was ported to Mac OS X by someone over at the ZDoom forums. This means I can only hope the same guy will decide to port the new version over as well.

So yeah, that's my only request for ZDoom; Mac compatibility please. ^____^

Alternatively, the option to cycle through your weapons in PrBoom would also be great. :D

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Reevys said:

So yeah, that's my only request for ZDoom; Mac compatibility please. ^____^

I believe the only thing stopping ZDoom from getting Mac support is the fact that the developers lack a Mac. (Well I have a performa 6220CD, but that's far too old.) And for some reason all of the people who do Mac ports of ZDoom never want to release their source changes.

I'm hoping this scholarship opportunity still gives out Best Buy gift certificates so I can get a Mac. In which case I would try to get Skulltag and ZDoom to work on Macs.

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FrozenNemesis said:
Since searching these forums as well as google has not returned any decent result, I will just pose the question.

I just merged your thread with ryaxnb's because they overlapped very much.

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Blzut3 said:

I believe the only thing stopping ZDoom from getting Mac support is the fact that the developers lack a Mac. (Well I have a performa 6220CD, but that's far too old.) And for some reason all of the people who do Mac ports of ZDoom never want to release their source changes.

I'm hoping this scholarship opportunity still gives out Best Buy gift certificates so I can get a Mac. In which case I would try to get Skulltag and ZDoom to work on Macs.


I remember the guy that did it said all in all it wasn't to hard to do, just a few kinks to iron out here and there. But it works perfectly, so he did a great job there.

But like I said, I suppose it would be a lot easier if PrBoom just implemented the ability to cycle through your weapons.

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best: chocolatedoom/zdoom/odamex

chocolatedoom - DOOM.EXE but on my host OS without sacrificing stability to the underlying OS (or using an emulator layer)!

zdoom - well it doesn't have a framerate cap, and i can resize the window at will, and the positional audio works. Bad thing is just the use of FMOD and some detail settings crippling which makes it unplayable on my 486 (though if fmod was dumped for something fast, integery and compatible and r_detail wasn't nuked out I could get 70s on that old thing)

odamex - multiplayer zdoom that's gpl, and cross-platform. 'nuff said

worst: cdoom/risen3d/doom95/vavoom

cdoom - It's the only port that can play ROBOCOP DOOM 2
risen3d - it's just doomsday with some copyright infractions bundled on it and a bad webpage stuck in the 90s with 3d skulls, to boot
doom95 - ...
vavoom - makes doom play like a dwarf, with fat world and sprites sinking through the ground even in software. Holds a distinction to be the only engine of the ports that have a QuakeC-ish PROGS interpreter allowing the most advanced versatility for game logic possibilities, though this is largely underused

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leileilol said:

zdoom - well it doesn't have a framerate cap, and i can resize the window at will, and the positional audio works. Bad thing is just the use of FMOD and some detail settings crippling which makes it unplayable on my 486 (though if fmod was dumped for something fast, integery and compatible and r_detail wasn't nuked out I could get 70s on that old thing)


Is there a version of ZDoom that can run on a 486, or in DOS for that matter? Getting 70s framerates was already tough in sub-100 MHz 486s, in pure DOS, at VGA resolution, let alone when running with Windows underneath.

I tried running it on a Pentium 166 MMX with Windows 98 and 64 MB and apart from needing loads of RAM, it only plays acceptably without loading PWADS. As soon as you load even the simplest PWAD speed seems to plummet by several orders of magnitude, even with prBoom (which makes me think broken PWAD loading/memory management for patched resources)

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Maes said:

Is there a version of ZDoom that can run on a 486, or in DOS for that matter?

Yes, 2.1.x works roughly 15fpsish with sound enabled, 70 without

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Maes said:

ZDoom is the only port I've used consistently in the last years, in all of its flavors (GZDoom, ZDoomGL, ZDaemon).

All other ports I've tried from time to time more or less fell into the "one-time gimmick" category for me, all having something I deemed to be too broken or limited to keep using consistently.

If I were to point some obvious pluses for ZDoom I'd say the controls, interface, and compatibility.



amen to that.

i use mostly gzdoom, as it runs almost any wad, has accurate controls and looks good. for monsters i use only the original sprites, as i like them better than models.

some prboom+ (actually glboom+ as i prefer non-pixelated graphics) for demos and classic play.

what a port absolutely needs imo are crisp controls and the ability to map weapons to the keys around w-a-s-d, i'm used to this for years and not drawing the right gun when i need it isn't funny.

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Since I posted before the "port you use the most" was added, I do most of my playing under PrBoom, and usually only use anything else if I have a burning desire to play some mod that requires something else.

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