Different names for the same thing

[Patrick]

I certainly hope that this video is faked. Knowing this show, I'd think so, but the similarities are unsettling.

The Iraq War is Over

[GreyGhost]

I think that means from 1st Sept 2010 the mission in Iraq will transition to a "cut and run" - like Vietnam in the 70's.

[Sharessa]

Hahaha...god damnit. I'm starting to regret voting for that guy.

[Creaphis]

See, this is what I've really been expecting. During the election process everyone thought Obama was going to make massive changes. Liberals looked forward to this and conservatives feared it. Nobody seemed to consider the sizable chance that, well, he'd really just be another president.

Don't regret your vote, though, Dan. It's not like you had options.

[Use]

Danarchy said:

Hahaha...god damnit. I'm starting to regret voting for that guy.

What like the disaster in Iraq was just going to vanish because someone else is in the White House? It's going to take several years to clean that shitstorm up.

[Cupboard]

It's the pottery barn rule - "You break it, you buy it."

The Bush administration made a flat-out wrong decision in 2003. The invasion of Iraq would never result in any kind of success that could be achieved in a short period of time or at a low cost. Fast and decisive victory simply wasn't a possibility. Johnson's administration made the same argument about the Vietnam conflict. Overconfidence in the capabilities of conventional military intervention has led the US to some foolish decisions.

[Stupid Bunny]

Danarchy said:

Hahaha...god damnit. I'm starting to regret voting for that guy.

In all fairness he's still probably getting us out faster than McCain would have. Also, I feel like the expectations of a lot of pro-Obama people have been too high. I would have voted for him and I believe he will do a decent job, but I get the feeling that everybody voted for him believing that he would make all the problems of the country evaporate. Disappointment is pretty much inevitable in that case.

And Use3D is right...in keeping with my point, neither Obama nor anybody else can, within reason, instantly end something as incredibly fucked up as the Iraq War. Quick withdrawal from an occupied country can be as damaging as stupid invasions.

[Ralphis]

StupidBunny said:

I get the feeling that everybody voted for him believing that he would make all the problems of the country evaporate.

Yea but at least it's change I can believe in.

[Sharessa]

StupidBunny said:

In all fairness he's still probably getting us out faster than McCain would have. Also, I feel like the expectations of a lot of pro-Obama people have been too high. I would have voted for him and I believe he will do a decent job, but I get the feeling that everybody voted for him believing that he would make all the problems of the country evaporate. Disappointment is pretty much inevitable in that case.

And Use3D is right...in keeping with my point, neither Obama nor anybody else can, within reason, instantly end something as incredibly fucked up as the Iraq War. Quick withdrawal from an occupied country can be as damaging as stupid invasions.

Well the main reason I voted for him was because he actually had a platform with ideas. I haven't seen that since Clinton and Perot back in the 90s. Bush Sr., Dole, Bush Jr., Gore, Kerry, and McCain were basically just saying a lot of rhetoric with no kind of substance behind it. From Obama and Biden I heard stuff like "we're going to create a socialized health program" and "we're going to start an alternative energy plan on par with the Apollo Program". Actual plans and goals like that will get my attention. I guess right now it's a little early to chastise Obama and the Iraq situation is a bit screwy but...he is sounding a bit too much like Bush.

[Zaldron]

Danarchy said:

Hahaha...god damnit. I'm starting to regret voting for that guy.

Where you expecting troops to pack bags and leave tomorrow? Can you imagine the results? Remember this is a society that lived under an iron rule for a long time, people tend to go apeshit when you remove the blatant authority and try to instill "democracy", a concept that does not necessarily mean anything good or practical in a real sense.

Besides, a sudden decrease in security will, in any way or place, lead to unexpected surges. Pockets of soldiers may be trampling over the citizens and the whole philosophy on why they went there completely and utterly wrong, but they're a force to be reckoned with (it is, after all, the US military). Remove them in a hurry and it turns into a shitstorm pretty fast. Do you trust the iraqui government to run itself successfully in its current condition? Would you remove the troops just like that if intelligence hands you a report that basically says "this was not only completely useless, but things are worse now"?

[Butts]

The Messiah can do no wrong.

[Creaphis]

I don't see why this Iraq thing has been such a problem. I played through Call of Duty 4 for the first time yesterday, and wrapped up that entire so-called "quagmire" in about six hours.

[myk]

Zaldron said:
Where you expecting troops to pack bags and leave tomorrow? Can you imagine the results? Remember this is a society that lived under an iron rule for a long time, people tend to go apeshit when you remove the blatant authority and try to instill "democracy", a concept that does not necessarily mean anything good or practical in a real sense.

That the Iraqis will kill each other (which they are already doing and will continue to do) is as much a factor as "liberating Iraq" was for the invasion. It wouldn't matter except for a three letter word, the presence of various "reconstruction" companies doing business, nearby Israel, and other more global strategic military considerations. I mean, in Sudan people keep killing each other rather virulently, and it doesn't seem to "matter" much. No loot, no caring.

In any case, internal (US) pressure counts as much as, and sometimes more than, external factors. While it seems a good moment to start pulling out (to whatever point), certain parties might feel threatened if they can't continue to enjoy certain privileges or advantages the invasion may have brought them. Plus "pulling out" is relative. We can see other US military bases throughout the world left there after a "pull out" occurred.

[deathbringer]

India.

Has nothing been learned?

(Then again they havent actually left Iraq yet, so we'll wait and see. It might even go well.... *pffpppfhhhhhh*)