Which DOOM2 monster would've fit the best in DOOM?

[Fredrik]

Not enough possible poll options, so I joined the Mancubus and Arachnotron and left out the Icon of Sin. Oh well, cast yer votes. Personally, I vote for the Pain Elemental.

[dsm]

I voted for the heavy weapon dude as there are already former humans in the first Doom.
The Archvile would fit well, if it wasn't because it looked like a damn space-alien rather than a demon.
The others are too high-tech IMO (strange that the Cyberdemon is my fav demon in Doom - maybe because it looks more like a mythical demon, I think).

[Fredrik]

All these enemies have pros and cons. The Arch-Vile would have fit in DOOM very well, yeah. The problem with Mancubi and Arachnotrons, I think, is that they are too powerful (I believe the super shotgun was the key to balance in DOOM2).

[Espi]

Arch-vile's face looks exactly like one of the marble faces, so it would've fit pretty nicely waiting near one of those walls.

[Fredrik]

I've noticed that too. The Arch-Vile is probably based on that very texture.

[dsm]

Arch-vile's face looks exactly like one of the marble faces, so it would've fit pretty nicely waiting near one of those walls.

It doesn't look excactly like the marbface, but there are similarities.

[EllipsusD]

None of the above.

[Naked Snake]

The heavy weapon dude, but toned down a bit.

[Fredrik]

Look at this pic. I think the similiarity is quite convincing.

[dsm]

The heavy weapon dude, but toned down a bit.

Hopefully, they won't make him fire at you without pauses.
That's dead unrealistic (and some people think that it's annoying too). You just can't fire a machinegun repeatedly, especially not one with an insane firing rate, as you'll lose complete control over your aim.

[dsm]

Look at this pic. I think the similiarity is quite convincing.

Nah, the marbface has a taller skull and what seems like a mouth that the Archvile doesn't have, there also seem to be a slight differnce in the shape of the head.

But maybe it's just me...

[Espi]

Nah, the marbface has a taller skull and what seems like a mouth that the Archvile doesn't have, there also seem to be a slight differnce in the shape of the head.

The differences are irrelevant.

It's not like they used that marble face straight as it's face, but it can be seen that they are the same creature.

[Fredrik]

It gets hard to judge because of the horrible resolution the sprites are in :P

[dsm]

The differences are irrelevant.

It's not like they used that marble face straight as it's face, but it can be seen that they are the same creature.

All right then, but we did have a fine little discussion didn't we :-)?

[Fredrik]

Yep.

[Crendowing]

Ah, the marbface pic.....that should've been a sign to the players that it should've been a monster that was yet to come in the next game.

Anywho, here's how I see the "fitting" of each enemy:

Arachnotron/Mancubus: Definitely not at all. Though the arachs are the offspring of the Spiderdemons, they just wouldn't seem right anywhere in the first game. It would give away the Spiderdemon at the end of Inferno, in one way. The Mancubus just doesn't seem Hellish at all. Mechanical arms, fat body, he just looks too much like Jabba the Hutt. His place is guarding spaceports from humans on earth.

Arch-Vile: Too srong of a monster to be in the first game. Though he seems the most "hellish" of all (quoted from Hell on Earh, shoot me), again, the marbfaces were good enough to serve as what the "supreme officer" would look like in the next game.

Heavy-Weapon Dude (Former Commando): He might fit, but if he did, the only places he should've appeared were in The Shores of Hell on UV and Nightmare only and in Inferno on all difficulties.

Revenant: Eh, not a chance. Like the Arch-Vile, he would just be too strong for a zombie type of monster in the first game. Remember, the point of adding harder enemies in the next game was so that there would be a challenge for old DOOM vets like us. If it was added in the first game, not only would it be difficult, but it also again doesn't seem very hellish.

Pain Elemental: Yes, this would've fit in the game, but only in Inferno. Think about it; the Lost Souls come from Hell. Though they can exist in madmade environments (Episode 2), the Pain Elementals are made of Hellish energy and can only exist in Hell or any place that Hell has taken over. Also, it only makes sense to find the source of the Lost Souls in Hell, doesn't it?

My final answer will shock you somewhat. Out of all the choices, why wasn't the Hell Knight on there? That would've fit the best of all! I mean, having a lower class of Minotaur creatures would fit very well where the Barons of Hell first appeared. If you ask me, I think id messed up when they put in a lower creature in DOOM ][ but not in DOOM. I think if the Hell Knights did get in DOOM, they should've appeared in Episode 1's later levels at the earliest, though first appearing in Episode 2 would make a little sense too.

[dsm]

Heavy-Weapon Dude (Former Commando): He might fit, but if he did, the only places he should've appeared were in The Shores of Hell on UV and Nightmare only and in Inferno on all difficulties.

- Why only in these places? You don't honestly think that he's too hard to be in e1 do ya?

[Crendowing]

- Why only in these places? You don't honestly think that he's too hard to be in e1 do ya?

Remember, the point of adding harder enemies in the next game was so that there would be a challenge for old DOOM vets like us.

I hate the idea of the PSX version implementing the Commandos in Episode 1.

BTW, why do you keep putting hyphens by your statements? Just wondering......

[dsm]

I hate the idea of the PSX version implementing the Commandos in Episode 1.

BTW, why do you keep putting hyphens by your statements? Just wondering......

It's a habit I have from replying to my emails.
I often quote bits of what the original sender wrote - and then to make my reply more visble, I put a hyphen in front of it.

[Fredrik]

Out of all the choices, why wasn't the Hell Knight on there?

Oops, I knew there was something I forgot about :)

[Crendowing]

Ah.

[læmænt]

Pain Elemental might've fit in Doom, but it sucks so badly that it would be better to remove it froom Doom II instead :)

[EllipsusD]

The more I think about it the more it feels like none of the new enemies in Doom 2 were all that great. I guess I'm just so used to seeing them in some of those horrid settings (yes, the Doom 2 level design was not impressive at all) that I can't place them as being in any decent level.

Chaingunners are just annoying, but fit better than most enemies. They are definately something I would not like to see in the original Doom though. Episode one was kind of mysterious in a way- you didn't really know what was going on and the types of enemies were weak and limited. Adding the chaingunner to this would upset the balance. On the other hand it would make no sense to only include them in the later levels (maybe you could get away with it on Deimos) because zombies are the base enemies and are focused around the bases they were stationed at in life.

The Mancubus seems slightly Hell-ish, but would only fit in the last episode. Even then they would seem out of place considering the other enemies.

The Revenant... well, Revenant's I just hate. They are supposed to be human skeletons, right? And yet they are a couple of feet taller than any other human. That's not even mentioning that all they are are skeletons that shoot rockets. Magically they are able to move without muscles and their quickness makes them little more than a lame variation of the Cyberdemon.

Arachnatrons would make the Spider Mastermind less of a surprise and it would seem less monumental or important if you knew there were multiple spiders around. But somebody already pointed this one out.

The wicked Arch Vile, though proven to be the same as the portrait carved in several of Doom's stone walls, does not fit in with the pace of the first Doom. It's appearance and speed are it's main faults in this situation.

Pain Elementals are (in theory) not all that horrible. However, they have a very goofy looking appearance. It is very easy to tell the difference between the sprites made for each Doom game. In Doom 2, many of the enemies used the same color scheme: that of the Cyberdemon, yet blended to make the appearance much smoother. Almost every new character is dull and flesh-brown in appearance (just like most of the levels, IMO). The Pain Elemental from Doom 64 would fit a lot better, mainly in episode 3 if at all though.

Don't even get me started on the Icon of Sin.

The only enemy that would fit at all would be the Hell Knight, but only in episodes 2 or 3. Even though the appearence is still the dull color of every other new enemy, the fact that it is a recolored Baron inherently make it something that would fit. Even then it's kind of pushing things.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the thought of new enemies in Doom, it's just that none of the enemies from Doom 2 would have been good for it at all.

[Lüt]

The only enemy that would fit at all would be the Hell Knight.

I don't think the Hell Knight would have fit Doom that well. I know it makes sense, but Doom didn't have any similar enemies in it. Hell Knight would have been too repetitive. If it had been a different model and size, it might have worked, but not just a color-changed/stat-changed boss. Too cheesy an idea for the first game. Save it for the sequel.

[Crendowing]

Arachnatrons would make the Spider Mastermind less of a surprise and it would seem less monumental or important if you knew there were multiple spiders around. But somebody already pointed this one out.

That would be me :)

The only enemy that would fit at all would be the Hell Knight, but only in episodes 2 or 3.

Make that twice!

[sleepy_boy]

Going back to the Marbleface/Arch-vile issue...

The Marbleface is of the spider mastermind. Enlarged brain, sharp teeth, and it's a skull

the arch-vile has long, thin "pushed-back" areas aroung it's eyes, and has an angled forehead

also, my own therory on the Revenents is that they are revived archviles...they are almost exactly the same height.

blah blah blah... i talk too much...

[danarchist]

I think I have to agree with Cren about the Hell Knight being the best fitting demon.

The purpose of Doom was to scare you as you creep around small, dark corridors. The purpose of Doom 2 was to overwhelm you with the feeling that you were up against too much. The Doom 2 monsters are too powerful compared to the Doom monsters. In the original Doom, the Cacodemon was the only non-boss monster you couldn't take down with just 2 shotgun blasts. In Doom 2, most of the new enemies can take a bunch of fire before they go down.

The Hell Knight is best fit because its not too horribly strong and it has an aura of 'creepy scary' more than 'overwhelming scary'. But I do agree with Lüt when he said that it would be to repititious. The Pain Elemental would be my second choice, because it fits with the Hell architecture well, though it needs the open areas the Doom 2 provides. It would be best to put it only in a few levels in episode 3 and maybe episode 2. Mt. Erebus comes to mind.

The archvile wouldn't fit well because it's a bit too overtly malicious for the dark creepiness of Doom. Also, it would be too powerful. It might, on the other hand, make a good boss.

[Kid Airbag]

I think the mancubus would. It's unique enough to be something different, and is just a bit more challenging than the current monsters.

[læmænt]

In the original Doom, the Cacodemon was the only non-boss monster you couldn't take down with just 2 shotgun blasts.

You consider barons of hell boss monsters?

[Lüt]

You consider barons of hell boss monsters?

Considering they were the bosses of E1 in the same way that the Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind were the bosses of E2 and E3, yes.