MANLY LEAD: The world's baddest shotguns.

[Maes]

I'm undecided between this:

KS-23 heavy shotgun

and these:

A list of more probable "candidates" can be found here (I'm mirroring this page, since RWT appears to be down).

Which one do you think would make Doomguy happier?

[EarthQuake]

Oh my fucking god. How do you stand while shooting that thing?

[Maes]

EarthQuake said:

Oh my fucking god. How do you stand while shooting that thing?

And the guy shooting it is a quite hefty fellow, too, yet he gets kicked back a lot. A lighter-framed shooter won't stand a chance.

Even the 20ga version kicks very nervously. Compared to a G3A3/A4 assault rifle, the assault rifle has almost no recoil: when you shoot you can barely feel the weight of the bolt/breech mechanism shifting and very little force ever reaches your shoulder. The HK-11 machine gun, which uses the same ammo with the G3A3/A4 is practically recoilless due to its weight.

[printz]

I should really get into gun know-how to have a basis for answering threads like this (like, for example, something better than is that really a shotgun i thought shotguns are pump-action only, that looks like a smg...!!!).

Where do I start, considering that guns are under strict control here? Join the army or police? :)

[GreyGhost]

What have they got against fluffy toys?

I'd go with the sawn-off AA cannon KS-23 - hit a caco and you'll probably put it into orbit. Those auto shotguns are a bit of a joke - the first shot or two would hit the target, the rest would redecorate the walls and ceiling.

[Maes]

printz said:

Where do I start, considering that guns are under strict control here? Join the army or police? :)

Probably the Police, if you are more interested in small arms and practicing a lot. Plus you'll get a personal carry and gun ownership permit and much more target practice opportunities than the military. On the minus side you may actually have to use them (unless that's what you really want...).

In the military your contact with weapons and live ammo will be much more limited and subject to restrictions and regulations than with the police, and you will have almost none of the police's privileges regarding free weapon carry, ownership etc. Plus you'll be subject to a lot of everyday discipline and various menial chores regardless of rank, which will have nothing to do with using or handling weapons in any way.

[ducon]

Er… printz was joking, wasn’t he ?

[Jello]

I'm glad you mentioned the KS-23, since as soon as I read the title that was the shotgun I was going to name. I've fired both barrels from a 10ga at the same time, and that was hell. I can't imagine what a 4ga shotgun would feel like. Especially considering the fact that the KS-23 usually only has a pistol grip, with a few special versions using a full stock. Yes automatic shotguns are cool, but nothing is more badass than a 4ga shotgun that can punch a hole in a tank.

[Creaphis]

Maes said:

And the guy shooting it is a quite hefty fellow, too, yet he gets kicked back a lot. A lighter-framed shooter won't stand a chance.

I think I'd be able to use it as a jetpack.

[Prince of Darkness]

Creaphis said:

I think I'd be able to use it as a jetpack.

Now THAT would be worthwhile alternative fire.

[Sharessa]

Creaphis said:

I think I'd be able to use it as a jetpack.

Reminds me of Duke Nukem 2.

[deathbringer]

What about a Punt gun?

Used in marshlands / swamps to "cull" hundreds of birds at a time. Just imagine using one of those at close range, you'd take a cybie's leg off!, and not the flesh one either.

Or maybe you'd shoot the metal leg and all the pellets would bounce off and turn you into shredded crispy duck in hoi sin sauce. But this is Doom, not real life.

[Maes]

Heh, how about using a 120mm tank cannon to shoot case-shot, at this point? Now that's pretty badass....

[Snarboo]

I always liked the AA12:

[Maes]

Well, the AA-12 seems to solve the recoil problem, but the design is fugly and bulky, it looks like a big plastic tool for sandblasting or spraypainting, and with the drum magazine it looks like a tear gas gun. The A-12/A-20 have a much more "tactical" look.

[Creaphis]

And it's how a gun looks that's important.

[Butts]

Guns are awesome. At least when they aren't aimed at you.

[Espi]

Does this count?

[Chow Yun Thin]

I'm told it was a prototype 40mm pump-action grenade launcher. I could imagine it can be loaded with a round that carries buckshot.

I'd go with the Jackhammer purely for style. That, and its drum magazines were designed to be rigged as landmines.

[Jello]

Well the M79, aside from being a 40mm grenade launcher also had both buckshot and flechette cartridges developed for it. So I suppose one could say the M79 was the most badass shotgun ever made, and I do get a kick out of the fact that they called the flechette shell it fired a Bee Hive round. I would imagine 45 steel darts flying at you wouldn't be pleasant. A standard 12ga shotgun shell is about 18.5mm in diameter, and even the 4ga KS-23 is only around 27mm in diameter. Something about the thought of a 40mm shotgun firing over 20 .32 caliber bullets is rather disturbing.

As far as standard 12ga shotguns, I would go with the USAS-12 or the Saiga 12K. I need to track down a 12K, 20K's are a dime a dozen, but finding a 12 gauge Saiga seems to be extremely difficult and expensive.

[deathbringer]

In a videogame looks are everything! and realism comes second anyway, go crazy shooting two guns, which in real life would recoil your arms off, in each hand like they're 9mm's

In fact some kind of "stupidly overpowered unrealistic mod" might even be funny. Just so long as it was kept within the realms of (hollywood) possibility and not Mattbratt insanity. Like the grenade launcher with flechette rounds, punt guns, a street sweeper loaded with slugs etc etc.

[TheeXile]

Espi said:
- Tank shotgun movie -
Does this count?

That looks like it could take out a huge crowd with proper line of sight clearance. Impressive.

Creaphis said:

And it's how a gun looks that's important.

:P

I guess you could argue it is for the dumb, expendable kiddies that the military depends on as their primary recruitment source.

[Maes]

HWGuy said:

I'm told it was a prototype 40mm pump-action grenade launcher. I could imagine it can be loaded with a round that carries buckshot.

I'd go with the Jackhammer purely for style. That, and its drum magazines were designed to be rigged as landmines.

Holy crap, that would be roughly a 1 1/2 gauge, according to this conversion table. I knew there were early black powder elephant guns that reached upto 4-gauge, but being able to shoot a load of over 300 grams of lead....that's more or less like shooting 10 skeet cartridges all together or 8 standard 36 gram 12-gauge shells, assuming it imparts the same initial velocity as a standard shotgun though (about 400 m/s on average for standard loads).

[physics]
With standard momentum and energy physics, an 8 kg shotgun shooting such a shell would develop a momentum of 120 kgm/s, with a speed of 15 m/s aka 54 km/h if left by itself! That's a shoulder energy of 900 Joules (a normal 4 kg 12 gauge shotgun would give 26 Joules with the same calculations), which is about as "good" as being hit by a sledgehammer!

A heavy shooter (90 kg minimum), with good shoulder contact, should be able to reduce the resulting speed to 1.2 m/s or "just" 72 joules but still, that's almost 70 times the energy on the shoulder delivered by a "normal" 12 gauge shotgun, which would be reduced to 1.2 Joules !!!

Don't be puzzled by the enormous difference in resulting energy, energy transfer is more efficient the closest the weights of the two involved bodies are, so a heavy projectyle will have a much more marked recoil effect than simple multiplication.[/physics]


OK...on the plus side, there's no standard 40mm launchable grenade with such a high muzzle speed, not even with that much weight load. The M576 40 mm "buckshot" grenade has "only" 100 grams of lead, and the muzzle velocity is just 270 ms, which is less than that of a standard hunting cartridge...

...so no, it probably wouldn't be as bad as the KS-23 or even as an old-fashioned "elephant gun", but pretty bad nonetheless. That is, until we find some muzzle velocity data on the KS-23.

[DuckReconMajor]

bamph

Snarboo said:

I always liked the AA12:

Just realized that gun is in Modern Warfare 2. Unfortunately they made the range horrible and you can only use the box magazine, not the drum. Oh well, still going to play with it some more now that I realize what it is.

[Snarboo]

The AA-12 was also added to Killing Floor in a recent free update. It's awesome but chews through its magazine in seconds.

[DuckReconMajor]

Yeah, it does in MW2 as well, but luckily you can extend the magazine and there's a perk that lets you pick up ammo.

[Mr. Freeze]

The AA-12 is a gimmick gun, nothing more. Get a pump-action if you want REAL manliness.

[DuckReconMajor]

not going outside anymore

[Maes]

DuckReconMajor said:

not going outside anymore

FTFY

[DuckReconMajor]

ahhh you got me