tom - 18 maps - part 1 done - part 2 started

Very challenging level. Keep up the good work. I had trouble getting through this thing alive, and on UV forget it! Excellent demos.

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I love when I'm looking at a screenshot then I press Tab to look at the automap... um, no... its a screenshot.

Fun and kinda puzzly (first I killed all the reverents with infinitely tall rocket splash damage by aiming at jutting corners of architecture before watching the demo).

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I liked that. Make more. And I used infinite height splash damage to kill some revenants before I watched the demo too, haha. I also didn't know that I could have lifted those pillars in the front, heh. Pretty clever level though.

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Download: tom02b - 2 maps done

Map02 is a remake of the first part of Rosewater Park from Silent Hill 2 (up until you meet Maria). I haven't tried playing it all the way through yet, so there might be some small changes tomorrow. To get bfg early, you can do an archvile jump from the gazeebo area into the locked area that you need blue key to get into.

MAP02
http://timeofdeath.wrvids.com/doom/tom02a.jpg
http://timeofdeath.wrvids.com/doom/tom02b.jpg
http://timeofdeath.wrvids.com/doom/tom02c.jpg
http://timeofdeath.wrvids.com/doom/tom02d.jpg

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Cool demo, BUT I made some changes and now it desyncs, sorry. :/
I've been using your archvile jump for max instead of the archvile jump in the gazebo room. Some cells and a couple spheres were added. This map is way longer than I want the other maps to be, but I've been wanting to do a Silent Hill 2 remake for a while and just wanted to get it over with. About the intended max/speed tricks - it's kinda funny because in my first maps (coop) from a few years ago I had to make sure there weren't tricks/shortcuts so that the server wouldn't lag if people rushed through the map and woke up too many monsters.

Download: tom02b - map02 should be finished now

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'now it desyncs'
I don't mind and figured a change might desync it. Plus I used the wrong archvile (for speed), oops. BTW I think there's still a 3d mode start in it (and maybe the first) which didn't seem to affect anything for me but not sure if those affect compatibility in some way.
That lost soul trigger is interesting because its a bit random and I didn't know monsters (as opposed to dummy dolls) could trigger much in boom- could be used as a sort of random number generator to make randomish events happen maybe (in addition to random lifts, random triggers for lights/warps/etc). I'll try max eventually.

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This was also a cool map. These maps have a good design, relying more on strategy than brute force.

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Yeah, I always leave the 3d mode starts there with all the difficulties unchecked, but I don't know if it would cause problems with something like doom2.exe.

It's cool that monsters can trigger lines even in doom2 format and that lost souls don't count towards kill %. I remember seeing a list of what lines monsters and players can trigger on this forum, but I couldn't find it when I tried searching a few days ago.

Oh, and I added two more megaspheres because I'm a baby and think it's too hard.

Download: tom02b

Edit: map02 speed in 0:36

Edit: map02 safe max in 8:52

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Nice runs. I purposely did a max before watching yours so it wouldn't be influenced. Just a first exit with room for improvement (9:18) and full of repeatedly failed jumps since I suck at jumping.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/dgyhok
A couple exploits, not sure if you're aware of: (1) get bfg without lowering bars, 2) you can flip the switch near the romero head and immediately step over it out the side to relative safety). Fun map.



EDIT: There this one has less fail, tom02b.wad, map 2, 8:14
http://www.sendspace.com/file/ejusem
actually a longish time ago I also edited the last reply in the seaburt thread with a demo instead of making a new reply, thus not bumping the thread, just in case you happened to miss it or are interested.

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Download: tom03 - 3 maps done

Map03 is another Silent Hill 2 remake - from the start of the game up until where the winding dirt path begins (the one that leads you to the first save area and the graveyard where you first meet Angela).

MAP03
http://timeofdeath.wrvids.com/doom/tom03a.jpg
http://timeofdeath.wrvids.com/doom/tom03b.jpg
http://timeofdeath.wrvids.com/doom/tom03c.jpg

ggg - getting bfg without lowering the bars was unintentional and I was kinda sad after seeing it was possible in your demo, because I liked the difficulty of it. But, I quickly got over it and am glad it's possible because that part was annoying. I might just put a part like that in a different map where you can't exploit it.

I really like the second exploit you mentioned, thanks. Also thanks for the demos - I usually have a really hard time playing other people's maps (because I don't know where everything is). I didn't see your 8:14 until just now when I went to update the thread, but I added it to the zip (also a 5:51 that I did after watching your first demo). And yeah, I missed your new seaburt demos too, thanks for the heads up. I'll probably add seaburt to this wad since it's in the same format. Is it possible to change the demos so that they play on a different map number?

Edit: added coop starts to map03 and reuploaded.

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Fast 02 max & good idea to trigger the viles earlier. Feel free to remove the bfg exploit or whatever changes in any maps if you want (I don't care if it desyncs my demos).

'Is it possible to change the demos so that they play on a different map number?'
Good question and something I've wondered myself. havn't tried 03 yet.

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I'll probably just leave it because I remember dying pretty often with the bars down.

map03 speed 0:48
map03 max 2:43

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Crap your times are hard to beat; I just tied the map 2 5:51 for now (yes I know you need to hit both those switches for the key but I thought I already hit the first since I usually did in previous runs).
http://www.sendspace.com/file/u37rcq


EDIT:
for map 3, I tried killing the cyber early, otherwise just copied your route. Not so great time, 3:03. I suck at acrobatic stuff; usually I fail jumping to the key platforms and wall running.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/7cevp2

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I really like these maps, again, a good job. They are short and simple yet present a nice challenge. I won't make a demo though because my doom skills are embarrassing compared to... everyone. And it would be slow... really slow.

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Here's my route so far for tom04, map4, 6:13 (1st exit, probably do a better one later)
http://www.sendspace.com/file/0nwrpi
It initially looks harder than it is.
Some invisible thing seems to often bump me off of thin walkways near walls, but that's just the engine or something since it happens in other wads.

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Glad you like them, Butts. Any and all demos from anyone are welcome and will be added to the zip, so feel free to record if you want.

Cool demo, ggg. Your 360 tantrums are funny with the keyboard. Yeah, getting bumped off the ledge is annoying. Removing the skinny bars that separate the midbars along the perimeter of the pool seems to stop it from bumping you off, but I didn't want to remove them. I hold strafe right and usually take "baby steps". Yesterday I did 5:30 with a bit different route.

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A faster route seems to be to fire a shot at the beginning so everyone infights while you do stuff. But that has 2 problems I see: 1)infinitely tall pinkeys can block you but not always (as in this demo- a block monster line somewhere by the cyber door might be good):
http://www.sendspace.com/file/2btd7i
2)when monsters are running all over, I guess sometimes the cybers don't warp for awhile because their warp spots are covered up or something (maybe a fix would be making each of those warp lines go to different extra warp spots, as backups to better guarantee they'll warp if the first ones are covered)

Heh, I tend to do those turns in aggravation when I miss a lift or have to wait or something.

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For the infinitely tall demons - I was originally gonna put a block monster line there somewhere but then thought you could stand in that area pretty safely without worrying about monsters chasing you. What about not lowering the silver bars until later?

The cybers were originally gonna warp to different spots but then I changed it to one spot. If it really bothers you then I'll change it, though.

EDIT --- ok, the cybers can teleport to two spots now in map04, but I didn't add the monster blocking line - is that ok?


Download: tom05b - 5 maps

Map05 has two exits - one for speed, one for max.

MAP05
http://timeofdeath.wrvids.com/doom/tom05a.jpg
http://timeofdeath.wrvids.com/doom/tom05b.jpg

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I've just had a problem with map 05, under the latest ZDoom / GZDoom : the stairs rise too much and the player can't reach the second switch.
Worked well under PrBoom though.

Great map !
A simple, yet effective trap. Keep them up :)

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Its your map so do whatever you want of course (and good points); I was mostly just wondering if it'd be changed to try to prevent new demos from desyncing (if you wanna change it back to resync your demo, that's fine with me. Besides I tried the 'shoot early' route and the time sucked, like 5:50 I think with saves and lots of deaths).
The stair part in 5 seems cool. I fail wall running to the warp like 95% of the time.

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Thanks for the info about the stairs. About them - they build from both ends, just like the stairs in eternall map25. It looks like for some reason those kind of stairs act differently between complevel 2 and complevel 9 (you'll get stuck in eternall map25 if you play it with complevel 9). My map was designed for complevel 9 because of demos, so the stairs raise differently but I never noticed while making the map since I tested in complevel 9. Apparently ZDoom/etc use complevel 2 stair-building for those kind of stairs (even if the map is in boom format) so I guess the only way to play tom05 is with complevel 9.

So, I don't know what to do. The wad is designed for complevel 9 to prevent overflows, but now ZDoom/etc can't play it.

ggg - I like your ideas and will update the map again soon (so don't record on map04). The second cyber spawn destination will stay and two stuck-together specters will be put in the same spot as the megasphere by the silver bars to stop the demons from entering. Also, the three soulspheres in the outer corners will be changed to megaspheres.

Wall running to the warp in map05 is easier if you sr50 - press at the same time: forward, strafe direction, strafe on, turn direction (I dunno how it would be with just keyboard - I press alt with my left thumb for strafe on, and drag the mouse for the turn direction). Actually, strafe running while pressing strafe on for the wallrun seems to be faster than just strafe running.

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If you really feel like making the stairs compatible I think there's a way:
Make each stair 'section' bound to its own isolated dummy sector and make them all the same tag. Make each dummy surrounded/connected to like 6 (or however many stair builds there are) sectors with varying ceiling heights (the heights you want that particular section of stair to go on each next 'stair build'. But instead of using the stair action, use 'rise to next lowest ceiling'. (you can't use 'rise to next floor' because each stair section is directly adjacent to other stair sections with changing floors, so would rise to them instead of the dummies. I'm only going by memory so this might be wrong.

edit: actually it appears sectors like 334 wouldn't make that work since the stair would rise to that ceiling instead, but not sure. If you copy/cut the sectors 334,335,336,337 (etc) and paste 1 pixel or greater away from the stair sections (so those ceilings are no longer adjacent) it might work.

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TimeOfDeath said:
Yeah, I always leave the 3d mode starts there with all the difficulties unchecked, but I don't know if it would cause problems with something like doom2.exe.

It can. For one, to make the level work in Doom you've got to add the camera as some harmless object, otherwise the game terminates on startup after detecting an unknown thing. I've done this by giving the "dead lost soul" thing the cam's doomednum, using this hacked executable for WADs that retain the cam. For some reason, though, this change can desynch demos.

One thing you can do is give the dead lost soul (thing 116 in DeHackEd, which is normally not doing anything in the game) doomednum 32000 instead of its usual 23 and place the DEHACKED lump with that data in the WAD or add that to the existing lump, if you're already using one, of course. People using Doom will then apply the patch and then the demo will work the same way in all compatible engines. If you do this, you might want to note it on the text file.

Doom users can also open a level with the cam and give it doomednum 0 so it doesn't appear. This will make demos work and might be okay for a single level, but much less fun if one has to fix a whole level set.

Note that this only matters in respect to Doom, as Boom doesn't care about unknown things.

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ggg - cool idea for the stairs. I couldn't find a useful ceiling action in doom2 format, but "floor lower to highest floor" looks like it would work (if you add a second dummy sector to each of the first dummy sectors with the proper floor height, and the first dummy sectors all with floor height below the lowest stair height - then the first dummy sector raises to the second dummy sector's floor height, then the stairs raise to the first dummy sector's floor height - all instantly, since the floors raise instead of lower) - or whatever). But like you said, the sectors around the stairs would have to be separated by a lower floor and I was worried monsters wouldn't enter the little glowing corridors. I guess the easiest way would be to use "stairs raise by 8" with complevel 2 for the stairs that raise too high, but "raise by 8" rises way too slowly.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I don't care anymore - so the map05 max route only works with complevel 9.

myk - does Doom still detect an unknown thing when all the difficulty settings are unchecked for the camera?


Download: tom05c - 5 maps

No new maps, just an updated/finalized map04 with the stuck specters, megaspheres and extra cyber spawn (also, I hope you don't get bumped off the ledge anymore).

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TimeOfDeath said:
myk - does Doom still detect an unknown thing when all the difficulty settings are unchecked for the camera?

Yeah, it'll close off anyway.

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Cool, I'll retry 4 eventually but might take awhile because hell revealed 26 is pissing me off lately.

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