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Insane_Gazebo

Sunder - Map17 is here!

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A quick bump and another update. (Check the OP). This includes fixes to maps 16, 31 (the re-drawn outdoor area) and 32. Not Map 15, but that's next.

 

Tell me if I forgot/missed anything. Thanks everyone for the helpful feedback and encouragement. 

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27 minutes ago, Insane_Gazebo said:

A quick bump and another update. (Check the OP). This includes fixes to maps 16, 31 (the re-drawn outdoor area) and 32. Not Map 15, but that's next.

 

Tell me if I forgot/missed anything. Thanks everyone for the helpful feedback and encouragement. 

The lighting on the cubes at the end of MAP31 are now broken on some of the cubes. This happens in at least GZDoom, PrBoom+, and GLBoom+.

Spoiler

DdvLbmO.png

 

In that same image you can also see a strange difference between GZDoom and PrBoom. In GZDoom with any renderer (in the photo), you can see the inside edges of the cubes, which gives a cool sheen as you move across them; in PrBoom and GLBoom, the tops appear as solid teal colors. No need to fix this, since it's not really a bug, just thought it was kind of neat.

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, 3saster said:

The lighting on the cubes at the end of MAP31 are now broken on some of the cubes. This happens in at least GZDoom, PrBoom+, and GLBoom+.

  Reveal hidden contents

DdvLbmO.png

 

In that same image you can also see a strange difference between GZDoom and PrBoom. In GZDoom with any renderer (in the photo), you can see the inside edges of the cubes, which gives a cool sheen as you move across them; in PrBoom and GLBoom, the tops appear as solid teal colors. No need to fix this, since it's not really a bug, just thought it was kind of neat.

 

Ah, interesting. I rarely test in GL renderers so I usually miss these things. 

 

Also, I just wanted to add NoReason just discovered I mis-aligned the grates in the main entrance hall to the big Cube building, likely due to me using auto align on something connected to it. I'll re-upload the wad soon (with the same version number) with this corrected.

 

EDIT: Also, uh, no one fly up too high to look at the top mountains please. :D

Edited by Insane_Gazebo

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Posted (edited)

thespudhunter was streaming Sunder to over 1.5 million people last night. Hope you find it all encouraging. The stuff is beautiful imo.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mk7_Centipede

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MAP16 - This wall, on the left side of the area where you fight the barons after getting the yellow key, is untextured.
uq7jQsl.png

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1 hour ago, 3saster said:

MAP16 - This wall, on the left side of the area where you fight the barons after getting the yellow key, is untextured.

 

Ah, crap. Thanks. That will be sorted in the next update. 

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2 hours ago, 3saster said:

MAP16 - This wall, on the left side of the area where you fight the barons after getting the yellow key, is untextured.

<image>

Hey, which HUD and port is in that image?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Spectre01 said:

Hey, which HUD and port is in that image?

The port is GZDoom. The HUD is one I wrote myself modelled based on this one. That one had features I didn't like (like item display) and couldn't display stats as x/y, so I rewrote it myself from scratch in ZScript. If you want mine, PM me.

Edited by 3saster

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I guess I'm in the minority here but...

 

I love the art and design used in your maps, but the difficulty and extreme slaughter style turns me off. If some day you implement difficulties on Sunder, I would be very happy :)

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Another quick bump for another small update, fixing various small things in the new maps including Map 15 this time. As always, check the OP for an updated link.

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I've made it to the end of the Whispers of the Gnarled King and what a great map! Took me precisely 3 hours (the time counter) to beat the map, 8+ hours overall and 200+ attemps. In ~20% of them I fell in a trap pit and from the platforming sections. In 21813 version there was only 1 monster left when I exited.

About the gameplay difficulties in the map16. Just finished testing strats for some encounters in the map16 like for the one with the YK and I have to say that this fights seem to be hard and on the edge, but because there is a chance to camp a little in almost every one of them they are, in fact, easy to beat. I mean I died a lot on this map in specific encounters mostly because I was first of all approaching every encounter aggressively. Turns out it's more about thought out strats than about enough ammo/health that's balanced well.

  

 

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I have finally beaten House of Corrosion within a bit more than 1h30. Too much attempts because I saved while I was in bad spots (low health or cornered) and had to retry from scratch.

I gotta say, I_G is living up to his reputation for designing beautiful maps, but extremely challenging: cramped spaces, difficult to move around, ambush traps (felt like playing a Sunlust map), using cybies to thin monsters out.

 

I have also cleared The Harlot's Garden. The map itself is superb, has a bit of a Castlevania atmosphere, like you're trespassing on a vampire lord's property (I particularly appreaciated the texture of ripped human faces nailed on wooden planks).

Some spots were quite difficult to play, in the small forest grove to activate switches to open access to the main garden, the giant hedge maze and the final room.

 

As the hedge maze is not shown on automap display, it takes quite some time to get used to it and find proper path, especially, running back and forth to find access to switches while dealing with monsters popping in at the same time was a huge pain in the ass.

One of the major drawback of the last room is that some enemies can get blown off the ledge from a BFG blast and fall into the pit, without being killed on the spot, which makes impossible to max the level.

 

On 6/19/2019 at 7:30 AM, Insane_Gazebo said:

Map 32 (just to be clear, Map32 was always supposed to be a bit obnoxious and over the top - but it's clear the hedge-maze might have been a bit too far in the obnoxious direction): 

- Fixed some chaingunners in a monster closet that were accidentally marked as deaf/ambush

- Fixed a soft lock behind the Cybie tree stump

- Re-balanced the hedge maze so you're less likely to save scum yourself into a corner (still debating on whether or not to change it being hidden on the auto map or not. I don't feel it's much of a maze if it isn't.) Lots more ammo, and an extra megasphere have been added, mostly around the fountain.

 

Ha, that could explain why there were 16 monsters missing from killing count.

I wasn't playing the updated version. I will dl'ed it later.

 

Anyway, thanks for keeping on your great work and looking forward to playing your next releases! ;)

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It took much longer than I expected. On the Harlot's Garden I've spent around 4.5 hours. Blind, didn't use saves much. The exit time is 1:55, all dead, and, btw, the intermission screen shows "House of Corrosion" mapname for the map32. The HoC has "Wolfenstein" name in the 21816 update.

 

Finished playing the set and done it in prboom. Now, the only thought that comes to mind when I try to think about all this is how's it possible that one person can build such maps. That's a mistery to me. There are so many things to take care of in the process.

 

I've read good detailed comments about the map32 in here. I can add that in 21816 version there is nothing I consider really hard or highly annoying in terms of gameplay. Probably, many things were changed. Some often mentioned parts like the hedge maze I played safe, monotonously camping. It's like, it was created for this. Can't say it was easy though. I ate 2 megas and run out the place heavily wounded without rockets and shells. 

The impression is that the maze isn't huge and very complicated and a player can navigate in it after sometime, so why thoroughly learn routes of this maze with that amount of ammo at the fountain? There was no motivation to that. Besides, the thing is that I don't see how this would help and give an advantage. There is no way I can look just a little bit above the hedge to know where e.g. the cybers and monsters are, or at some signs of progression, or at the maze itself. So, I'd still grind on the spot and make short raid for the ammo. May be there is some good strat but I doubt it. Probably some tactics will change that's all.

 

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3 hours ago, Player177 said:

It took much longer than I expected. On the Harlot's Garden I've spent around 4.5 hours. Blind, didn't use saves much. The exit time is 1:55, all dead, and, btw, the intermission screen shows "House of Corrosion" mapname for the map32. The HoC has "Wolfenstein" name in the 21816 update.

 

Finished playing the set and done it in prboom. Now, the only thought that comes to mind when I try to think about all this is how's it possible that one person can build such maps. That's a mistery to me. There are so many things to take care of in the process.

 

I've read good detailed comments about the map32 in here. I can add that in 21816 version there is nothing I consider really hard or highly annoying in terms of gameplay. Probably, many things were changed. Some often mentioned parts like the hedge maze I played safe, monotonously camping. It's like, it was created for this. Can't say it was easy though. I ate 2 megas and run out the place heavily wounded without rockets and shells. 

The impression is that the maze isn't huge and very complicated and a player can navigate in it after sometime, so why thoroughly learn routes of this maze with that amount of ammo at the fountain? There was no motivation to that. Besides, the thing is that I don't see how this would help and give an advantage. There is no way I can look just a little bit above the hedge to know where e.g. the cybers and monsters are, or at some signs of progression, or at the maze itself. So, I'd still grind on the spot and make short raid for the ammo. May be there is some good strat but I doubt it. Probably some tactics will change that's all.

 

 

That was, more or less, my clearing time during 1st attempt with a few saves depending of sectors. E.g. I prefer to save a couple of times in the main garden because I often got it by stray rockets from cybies on the highest hill. The manor itself was nearly a walk in the park, except blue key room. Given I was playing the 21813 version of Sunder, I pulled a few tactics stunts that made my progession easier in the level. I don't know whether I will be able to perform the same tricks with the updated version or not.

 

However, the hedge maze is definitely the biggest fight to overcome:

 

-Playing it blind, you have 5 switches to hit in order before taking the exit and, as the usual linear switch activating pattern, once you hit a switch, you have to run around a bit to find the next one, until the last, and deal with monsters in tight corridors at the same time. Given the architecture of a maze, you get sandwiched pretty fast if you don't pay attention to your surroundings.

 

-Camping near the fountain makes it a comfort zone, having (limited) supply of ammo and a megasphere at hand, but that's the danger IMO: the longer you stay camping the faster you waste your ammo. Even more so, when Viles will teleport in soon after you hit the 3rd switch to start resurrect monsters you killed before, ruining your efforts.

 

-Enemies can spot you and fire at you from Viles "fake" walls, so you need to check your back more often during fights. I got hit by cybies or HK that way.

 

Apparently, I_G added more ammo in this arena, I will play it again with the updated version to assess the modifications.

 

 

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So I went back and finished Map 32, from the hedge maze on. The hedge maze has been commented on by others and since edited, so I won't go into it beyond noting that I agree with those critiques and I hope the changes make it better. 

 

The fights before the red key aren't bad, though nothing too challenging here. I imagine that if you somehow come out of the hedge maze in good shape that this margin of error makes it even smoother. You have an unusual amount of space to work with compared to a typical Sunder map, which really lets you take a defensive stance if you need to.

 

The fight for the red key's really a lot of fun. It feels like there's a few workable approaches here, I chose to blitz the switches and escape, which worked out well for me after a handful of false starts with the viles. The battle fairly trivial from there, all you have to do is mill down the cacos, which isn't hard if you have ammo reserves from the big battle out there, and then optionally gun down the revenants through the gate. I assume using the tunnels and fighting in the midst of it could work as well, though that strategy didn't appeal to me. Likewise, I thought about blasting through the viles and retreating back the way I came, but escaping seemed better. Fun fight either way, I enjoyed gauging the different approaches to it.

 

One note on entering the manor: If you run up the stairs first thing before the entrance finishes rising, the entrance won't close shut. Combine this with jumping down the side of the stairs, rather than going down them, and you can go back outside once to collect ammo and anything else you left behind. Is that intentional or is it a small bug, I wonder?

 

The manor itself is fun and mixes it up as you go. I liked it and the style, especially the library (a good sign for map 17 in the future, I hope), though nothing truly stood out. There was a distinct feeling of a lull a few times in the manor, where it felt unusually free of fights as you wandered for the next one. Mix that in with some small stakes battles in between the few set piece battles there and I found it a good change of pace from the earlier antics in the map.

 

Finally, the last fight is...well, I think it's harder than the hedge maze, but also a lot less annoying. As frantic and somewhat luck based as it is, it also felt a lot more manageable. Sure, I had a lot of deaths from rockets, baron fireballs, pits (I really liked how most of the ledges above the pits were jumpable, but every so often there's one that isn't but just a little, and can easily bait you when you're frantically dodging, by the way) and so on, but I liked it. At first I was surprised there wasn't an invulnerability sphere, but in retrospect I think that was the right choice. An invuln would trivialize a good chunk of this fight. As it is, I felt it was a delicate dance of eliminating enough annoyances (fliers in particular) to have room to dodge and whittle down the horde. Great stuff.

 

---

 

I glanced at the map 31 changes outside, good stuff. I really like the theme now and I hope the inside continues that feeling of everything slowly corroding away to the acid. The way there's points in the building where the acid's leaking out is really inspired.

 

---

 

I've started map 16. I'm immediately reminded of The Cage, which is my favorite map in Sunder. Paradoxically I haven't gotten into it at all. I'm not far into it yet (just past the first room, to the fight with the barons and imps), but both the fights aren't doing it for me so far and the thematics of it feel a lot different from map 9. Map 9's always had a strong sense of purpose and unity to me, one great cube of metal in a valley full of blood. Everything feels part of one greater whole that you transverse, you know?

 

From what I've seen of map 16, it feels a lot more...ramshackle, I'd say? Like a city that grew organically atop all this old wood, linked together haphazardly, and that being able to travel from one section to another is as much good fortune than it is this city working as designed. This is a good thing, there's certainly a strong theme to the map from what I've seen (both playing and on some glimpses of the map on twitch), it just isn't doing it for me as a matter of taste. Still, I do like and approve of the sheer sense of place map 16 has, something that every map in Sunder does so well.

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21 hours ago, Kyoh1 said:

However, the hedge maze is definitely the biggest fight to overcome: 

 

-Playing it blind, you have 5 switches to hit in order before taking the exit and, as the usual linear switch activating pattern, once you hit a switch, you have to run around a bit to find the next one, until the last, and deal with monsters in tight corridors at the same time. Given the architecture of a maze, you get sandwiched pretty fast if you don't pay attention to your surroundings.

 

-Camping near the fountain makes it a comfort zone, having (limited) supply of ammo and a megasphere at hand, but that's the danger IMO: the longer you stay camping the faster you waste your ammo. Even more so, when Viles will teleport in soon after you hit the 3rd switch to start resurrect monsters you killed before, ruining your efforts.

 

-Enemies can spot you and fire at you from Viles "fake" walls, so you need to check your back more often during fights. I got hit by cybies or HK that way.

 

That's the exact description of what's going on up there. I forgot to check the hedge maze balance in the 21813 version after the walkthrough. Pretty sure that there must be not enough supplies for camping at the first switch. It would force a player to leave the spot in the middle of the monsters invasion with a sense of foreboding because there's nowhere else to hide, wait out, nowhere to run except the switches which are blocked and you don't remember where they are. I exclude the possibility of clearing the lines jumping around like in a bomberman game. That's suicidal unless a player uses a savegame every 10 seconds since there is no invul in the bushes. No landmarks, no small breaks in the hedge or transparent parts. Just high green fence surrounds you. So, I suppose before pressing the first switch you have to be already familiar with the maze paths and understand that it's important for survival here. But if a player runs in to rip, presses the switch and start saving every moment than I guarantee a ragequit and cheats activation.

 

Adding this: after playing the 21813 hedge maze version I can say that until the cybers (4) appeared everything seemed decent with camping strat. Pushed the 2nd switch and ran to the fountain to start grinding behind the mega back and forth mostly wasting rockets. Cleared all the monsters. After the 3rd switch couple archies arrive. Found where and in a next attempt rushed them immediately. Than the 4th switch - the cybes with the archies. The Cybes are evil in narrow spaces. When they will teleport in there will be no health supplies left (in 21816 I grabbed an added mega at this point) and the safest way is just to escape from the maze, but the archviles would maybe resurrect to much mobs in this case. I bfg'd two cybes, some archies and left the place. 

 

Another thing I've tried is to leave the maze asap. Rushed every switch and got out. It's possible.

Edited by Player177

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20 hours ago, Player177 said:

Adding this: after playing the 21813 hedge maze version I can say that until the cybers (4) appeared everything seemed decent with camping strat. Pushed the 2nd switch and ran to the fountain to start grinding behind the mega back and forth mostly wasting rockets. Cleared all the monsters. After the 3rd switch couple archies arrive. Found where and in a next attempt rushed them immediately. Than the 4th switch - the cybes with the archies. The Cybes are evil in narrow spaces. When they will teleport in there will be no health supplies left (in 21816 I grabbed an added mega at this point) and the safest way is just to escape from the maze, but the archviles would maybe resurrect to much mobs in this case. I bfg'd two cybes, some archies and left the place. 

 

Another thing I've tried is to leave the maze asap. Rushed every switch and got out. It's possible.

 

I tried as well to leave monsters aside and run for all switches until exit, but that was, more or less, a death wish, cause I was caught up by pinkies, which are the quickest, that slowed me down and then had to take care of the revenants and the rest of the gang. And of course, viles attacked me from the rear, shielded by others.

Better to thin monsters out 1st, take care of the viles with whatever ammo is left and then leave at the time cybies pop in, replenish your health and ammo and come back later. Also, I prefered to lure them out of the maze to fight them in a wider area.

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Well, I finally finished map 16. Final time was 3:33:34, but the real gameplay time was easily over 12 hours. Sunder has gone through several more iterations since I started playing this, so I'm going to assume the bugs I spotted have been fixed (a HOM in the area with vines, and a teleporter closet in the bottom left of the map where a cyberdemon got stuck). 

 

The only fight I had real trouble with was getting the yellow key: there were just too many pain elementals. Also, I assume this section was only tested in gzdoom, well, either that or those pits full of cells were just there to troll people. Seriously, good luck ever getting out of the central pit alive with infinite height turned on. 

 

Once again, I had gripes with the blue-green palette, this time on the vines (here and at the end of map 11), although I didn't try recoloring them this time. I'll just say they looked better here after I tried deleting the playpal. 

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On 7/2/2019 at 9:49 AM, Kyoh1 said:

 

I tried as well to leave monsters aside and run for all switches until exit, but that was, more or less, a death wish, cause I was caught up by pinkies, which are the quickest, that slowed me down and then had to take care of the revenants and the rest of the gang. And of course, viles attacked me from the rear, shielded by others.

Better to thin monsters out 1st, take care of the viles with whatever ammo is left and then leave at the time cybies pop in, replenish your health and ammo and come back later. Also, I prefered to lure them out of the maze to fight them in a wider area.

 

To finish my comments and experience on MAP 32:

I made a 3rd attempt with version 21813 and I finally managed to get through the maze without much trouble.

Contrary to my 1st statement, the camping strat at the fountain is, in fact, not bad at all, just have to give quick looks left and right to monitor any monster trespassing the area and balance BFG and rockets depending on situation and ammo supply left. But I made sure to kill all monsters so that I wouldn't have any to attack me from a blind spot (including viles hidden behind the hedge).

At 3rd switch, I rushed to the location of the viles (near the fountain).

4th switch, same strat as above, killed the viles in corridor close to the soulsphere and the ones coming from the area of the last switch.

Once I hit the 5th and last switch, I lured the cybies out to blast them.

 

The rest of the map was then pretty much easy, except last room where you have to quickly take the upper hand otherwise you get overwhelmed, especially by cacos since they are not hindered by the narrow platforms.

 

Finally started MAP 16, which feels less hectic than previous one. Maybe because it alternates between small fights and big fights in closed room.

Platforming feels less like tightrope walking, but you still need to mind your step

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Another Sunder map

Another sleepless night

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Oh. Boy.

 

More Sunder yay :) .

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Posted (edited)

Trivial bug report for Sunder 21816! In MAP16 I fell into the enclosed pit (sector 1534) only to find it neither did damage to me, nor was there an escape elevator.
image.png.0dda3d356ab74bbc9dd2dbccc0c3c993.png
I must be drawn to these pitfalls like a moth. Found another in sector 11474, though this one is less accidental.
image.png.7c43e1dd9642a4ac60339b114fe2a3e3.png

 

Edited by Bearcore

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I'm most of the way through Map 16 now (the next big building set piece after the big building with the BFG, the one with the clumps of cells in the pits) and the map's both grown on me and worn at me. I haven't had time to play in more than little snatches here and there, so it's been a fragmentary playthrough. A fight here, an encounter there, whittle it down as time permits.  This is absolutely one of those maps where the terrain is as much an enemy as the demons, as you're almost always close to falling off to your doom.

 

More and more I find myself appreciating the sheer scope of the map as well as how consistently it presents the same basic problems in different ways. Thematically, while I don't care for all the browns in the map, it's absolutely sold me on the overall theme and feel. The BFG room and the escape from it in particular stuck with me as impressive.

 

At the same time, the constant feel of being close to falling off along with tight, painful fights wears on me. The map's good, don't get me wrong, but it's also stressful because of that. I think it was called an endurance run or something like that in the readme, and that is 100% accurate. It's the first Doom map that I've both adored and felt drained to play.

 

As far as the fights? Most of them are solid if not spectacular. The main standout is the BFG fight, which I feel is both a good fight and comes together excellently. It took me a bit, from the first few flailing attempts, to one in three runs being lost due to falling or getting knocked into the muck to experimenting with and mostly rejecting opening the exit and trying to whittle them down in there. It felt fair, with several close efforts until I got a win, and I feel like the fight was manageable the entire time. Also, I somehow didn't notice there were two megaspheres until I was cleaning up after my winning run, which...yeah, not going to lie, I would've cleared it way earlier if I hadn't somehow missed that.

 

Fun stuff all in all, but after map 16, I hope 17 lays off the falling hazards plus is a bit looser with backtracking. I feel like a palate cleanser would be advised, something more like map 8 or 11.

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I'm not great with slaughter, but I've picked this .wad up for the first time and am playing through now. Even just map01 and 02 look impressive, having seen the screenshots of the vistas to come, I'm very impressed with the quality.

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Hi, found a small bug in Map 16.

 

TrYJ3y6.png

 

In the latter half of the level there's a circular arena full of blood, where you fight a few dozen Barons of Hell at once. On one of the small platforms leading to it, there's a little square of damaging floor, pictured. It's a pain floor as well, not just the muddy water texture.

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Posted (edited)

Just finished Map 32 and I just want to say that most of the areas can be done consistently and isn't heavily reliant on rng (unlike a certain other new map) therefore making it enjoyable. Yes, even the hedge maze area is doable when you figure out the optimal route to beeline to the megasphere area from various switch points, and control demon corpses so the arch-viles have a hard time getting to them later on. The teleport sequence releasing the cyberdemons can be controlled as well if you're quick enough. I would recommend having the cyberdemons arrive sooner than they already do if the author is intending to have them cut the player off before using the quickest route to the megasphere area.

 

One of my gripes with this map, however, are the numerous set pieces which begin the moment the player crosses a linedef. Oftentimes that linedef is much too close to where the player can cheese the fight(s) if they know what they're doing in advance (i.e. the second fight after hitting the cyberdemon switch and before entering the gated area, or the set piece with the mix of revs/demons/cybs + 1x archvile when you get near the pillars). Unless this was intended as an out in case the author deemed the scenarios too difficult I feel it doesn't apply enough pressure on the player as they can easily double back and kill off the opposition at their leisure.

 

Speaking of the aforementioned pillar area (and not sure if it was already brought up), there is a rather noticeable HOM when standing with your back to the hallway of the final arena and looking at the steps on the ground.

 

The large outdoor scenario can also be done consistently once you figure out which angles you want the mobs for the cyberdemons to hit them from afar, while the final arena has a few consistent routes where you can zig-zag around and kill off everything without putting yourself at too much risk once you get used to the placement of pits. The manor in general was a fun experience with some interesting encounters (and fun risky ways to get through them).

 

I'm gonna need the midi (in mp3 format) for this particular map btw. Kinda can't wait to see someone up a UV-MAX for this, pretty sure sub-1:00:00 is possible with enough patience dealing with enemy behavior. My favorite of the new 4 so far.

Edited by Khaoscythe

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Posted (edited)

Also, please for the love of god stop having maps with seemingly no ceiling and cacodemons (Map fucking 16) that will get blown into the sky and NEVER come back down (and before anyone states otherwise I've waited about an hour for 6 cacos that decided to chill in heaven during the rev/caco/manc teleport trap area and just decided fuck the uv-max run).... it's extremely vexing to deal with, especially in regards to possible speedrunning. It's annoying (in general) to have your potential uv-max run get nullified because of that sort of stuff.. period! Either add some god damn ceilings or get rid of the cacos completely.

Edited by Khaoscythe

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14 minutes ago, Khaoscythe said:

Also, please for the love of god stop having maps with seemingly no ceiling and cacodemons (Map fucking 16) that will get blown into the sky and NEVER come back down (and before anyone states otherwise I've waited about an hour for 6 cacos that decided to chill in heaven during the rev/caco/manc teleport trap area and just decided fuck the uv-max run.... it's extremely vexing to deal with, especially in regards to possible speedrunning. It's annoying (in general) to have your potential uv-max run get nullified because of that sort of stuff.. period! Either add some god damn ceilings or get rid of the cacos completely.

 

Port? If (G)ZDoom, that is an unfortunate consequence of changes in movement physics dating back to early ZDoom. This thread discusses that. 

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3 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

 

Port? If (G)ZDoom, that is an unfortunate consequence of changes in movement physics dating back to early ZDoom. This thread discusses that. 

 

Yeah that is unfortunate... damn shame.

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