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Insane_Gazebo

Sunder - Map17 is here!

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17 minutes ago, Krull said:

It might be a hassle to implement (you would need voodoo closets), but maybe keep the cheesable sections cheesable on lower difficulties. As Archviler noted there is something fitting about surviving these weird maps by exploiting their architecture, rather than tackling them as intended (which often feels impossible). And it would make a change to the usual "less monsters, more items" adjustments which would, at this point, be an even bigger hassle (and liable to cause TNT map31 type mistakes) given the amount of things there are.

 

Given I_G mindset about Sunder, which aims to make the player feel cornered (or desperate), I don't think that he wants to leave any cheesable sections behind.

But I agree with your comment as I am no MrZzul skilled player and, even though I love Sunder and its spirit, I sometimes feel frustrated with some sections, like in map 15 and 16.

It would be up to the player freewill to do it the easy or hard way.

 

BTW, I tried playing on GZDoom 420, strict Boom compat, but it was totally unplayable.

Switched to updated version of PrBoom+ and everything works fine now.

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Since I got mentioned and for what it's worth? I'm in favor of fixing most unintended bits of cheese and exploits, as most of them feel like simple errors and detract from the gameplay. However, I do think a few are okay if they do any of the following:

 

- Provides an interesting, alternate way of playing the map that isn't viable otherwise. Examples here are pacifist runs of map 9 and 10.

- Is a viable and interesting way to tackle a particular fight, often for tradeoffs or surrendering a UV-Max run in favor of survival. Speed blitzing the yellow key section in map 16 comes to mind.

- Otherwise fits the map or is worthwhile and fulfilling the player. The end fight escape from map 17's the main one I can think of here.

 

Sunder's great when it makes the player feel cornered and desperate, as the poster above me said. That also enhances the occasional example previously provided, which shine all the brighter when a player discovers them. It's okay to do that once in awhile, especially when it rewards a desperate or challenged player for intelligent gameplay.

 

Just my two cents.

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On 9/11/2019 at 10:53 PM, Bridgeburner56 said:

Thanks, I hate it already 

I love Sunder but goddamn the hive mother and that section with the extremely long difficult revenant battle. All the revenants spread on ledges within the hive. Fuck that part pissed me off.

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52 minutes ago, Hell_Pike said:

I love Sunder but goddamn the hive mother and that section with the extremely long difficult revenant battle. All the revenants spread on ledges within the hive. Fuck that part pissed me off.

Ha, I just hate platforming. Something Mr gazebo is well aware of :D

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I apologise if this has been asked before but can someone tell me where the music from map 12 comes from? The text file just says parallax software...

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12 minutes ago, Foodles said:

I apologise if this has been asked before but can someone tell me where the music from map 12 comes from? The text file just says parallax software...

 

It is from Descent :)

 

 

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^

 

I personally didn't mind this to a degree that warrants a wall of text. On one hand, it makes encounters seem mildly unpolished, but on the other, it removes the completely scriped nature and adds randomness. Always having complete control makes encounters predictable and learnable, while this way you simply have to use some additional improvisation on top of what you expect. There are, however, some individual fights where this doesn't work, especially viles in the last fight of map 17 are just stupid, since your whole view is flooded and you're basically left to hope for them to infight. Then you also have a fight like the triple button barons / viles section in 10 that just wouldn't work if you had an idea when are those viles going to teleport in.

 

As for monster closets, given the lenght of map and grinding required to do clean-ups, you're quite unlikely to miss something that teleports in too late. So far in practise, I've only noticed this to be noticable case in map 9, but otherwise no striking instances I can think of. Design of those closets does its job just fine for the most part, imo.

 

 

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4 hours ago, j4rio said:

^

 

I personally didn't mind this to a degree that warrants a wall of text. On one hand, it makes encounters seem mildly unpolished, but on the other, it removes the completely scriped nature and adds randomness. Always having complete control makes encounters predictable and learnable, while this way you simply have to use some additional improvisation on top of what you expect. There are, however, some individual fights where this doesn't work, especially viles in the last fight of map 17 are just stupid, since your whole view is flooded and you're basically left to hope for them to infight. Then you also have a fight like the triple button barons / viles section in 10 that just wouldn't work if you had an idea when are those viles going to teleport in.

 

As for monster closets, given the lenght of map and grinding required to do clean-ups, you're quite unlikely to miss something that teleports in too late. So far in practise, I've only noticed this to be noticable case in map 9, but otherwise no striking instances I can think of. Design of those closets does its job just fine for the most part, imo.

 

 

The only place where I found the randomness extremely problematic was in the original version of MAP06, where the viles/revenants/hks teleport in after grabbing the plasma rifle and climbing the stairs. Whether or not you can beat that fight depends on if you can kill the viles before running out of rockets; if the viles teleport in very late, you are basically screwed. Thankfully I_G added a lot more rockets in the current version to make completing it less dependent on RNG while still keeping when they spawn random.

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