Sunder - Map20 Appears, finally.

[RjY]

DoomHero85 said:

Map 13 still doesn't work. What am I doing wrong?

Upgrade your engine, man, this is the second time you've apparently expected bug fixes to magically transport themselves onto your computer without any action on the part of the user

:-P

[Philnemba]

I like the new maps even through I lack the skill to beat them. Time to pull out the super weapons dehacked patch that I sometimes use for these situations :P

[General Rainbow Bacon]

I did dl 2.5.0.9 test, but it didn't fix the problem

nvm, I'm dumb, i needed to download the 2.5.0.9 patch a second time.

[WH-Wilou84]

"Obsidian Nightmare" is by far one of the most impressive maps I've played lately. Brutal and beautiful. Good job, Mr. Gazebo. :)
Liked map 14 a lot as well, although I still prefer Speed of Doom map 24 ( which I found to be far less detailed and grand-scale but more interesting gameplay-wise ). I suppose I'm in a minority there, though.

Good luck to anyone who'll dare UV-Maxing those levels.

[j4rio]

Impressive new map. Though it lacks the overkill feeling especially because of the teleporters in lava and overall brightness. ;)
Some battles are ... meh. Too much quickloading. The small room with cacos revs and 2 archies teleporting got me the most though, I can't find a single method which works at least twice in a row.

[Insane_Gazebo]

dannebubinga said:

Map11 Bug.

Oh, thanks! I'm pretty sure someone told me about this ages ago, but I'd totally forgotten about it. :(

Philnemba said:

I like the new maps even through I lack the skill to beat them. Time to pull out the super weapons dehacked patch that I sometimes use for these situations :P

lol

[WH]-Wilou84 said:
...although I still prefer Speed of Doom map 24.

Nooo! :D

j4rio said:

Impressive new map. Though it lacks the overkill feeling especially because of the teleporters in lava and overall brightness. ;)
Some battles are ... meh. Too much quickloading. The small room with cacos revs and 2 archies teleporting got me the most though, I can't find a single method which works at least twice in a row.

I found that plasma/circle strafing while making sure you pick off the archies when they come out worked well for me during my own test runs - you just need to make sure you can get most of the revs and cacos to infight by drawing them into the center of the room, so the outer edge is 'clear' when the archies arrive. If that makes sense.

[Death Egg]

I loaded MAP11 on my computer yesterday, and it lagged to the point where it got bogged down to about 3-5 FPS. Then I looked at the automap and saw over 5000 monsters, and I realized something.

This mod is just a fancier Nuts.wad with strategy.

Also, if it's this bad by MAP11, I can't imagine how massively huge MAP30's going to be. It'll probably be the most epic Icon of Sin battle of all time....

[4mer]

Did some more testing earlier, don't know if you are aware of these:

MAP08 A cyberdemon never teleports, I think sector 5 needs a higher ceiling.
MAP10 At least 2 imps in sector 344 never seem to activate (maybe they are too far back).

[dannebubinga]

Has anyone got 100% kills on map 12? :S I had to run like crazy for the invulnerabilities and BFG mash myself to the switches and just flee like a chicken in the last area :( I ran away from the fight in the room before and took ALL revenants from that room with me.

I love sunder so much. It was about time someone made Doom super-hard!

Edit: Maybe you should make the arch-viles in the exit room face south-west cause that's probably the way the player will face the exit room?

[RjY]

4mer said:
MAP08 A cyberdemon never teleports, I think sector 5 needs a higher ceiling.
MAP10 At least 2 imps in sector 344 never seem to activate (maybe they are too far back).

I think you're playing the old version!

[Insane_Gazebo]

dannebubinga said:

Maybe you should make the arch-viles in the exit room face south-west cause that's probably the way the player will face the exit room?

That is a good idea actually. Done!

RjY said:

I think you're playing the old version!

No, he's actually correct - though it was a different cyberdemon than the one I thought was stuck, as well as some different imps that I had missed. That's fixed now, and I'll make sure they're (finally) fixed in the next update. Guh. (No doubt various testers told me that these problems existed ages ago, I just got confused as to which cybies and imps they meant, and thought I had fixed things. Obviously not.)

[Mivalekan]

No WAD has ever made me more afraid of switches :[

[DeathevokatioN]

Hahah, no wad made me more afraid of monsters. Period!

[j4rio]

Imho some parts in map 10 should have different monster usage.

-Those "caged" imps in the PE area could be replaced with cacos (unable to leave "cages"). Their projectiles are just as slow but more dangerous and imo it suits that part more. (Hell, it's an overkill wad anyways.)

-Mass HK area needs more mancos because it gets boring spamming rockets for 10 minutes and strafing left and right. Also it should be somehow made impossible to get bulls/revs get down from stairway to join infights, you'll skip a potentially tougher battle. I'd also put green armor somewhere into this part, because blue one you obtained earlier is almost certainly exhausted.

-Arach part... idk, it's weird. 2-3 BFG shots clear em out. Not sure if it's worth it. You have almost always 600 cells there because of free bulks in the part before it so I'd suggest different monster / monsters combo.

That's about all, but I have to say I miss some awesome view at the exit considering the astonishing looks of map. Maybe removing walls around exit?

[Khaoscythe]

You need to be shot in the foot for the mass PE spam in Map 13 btw...

Still sucks that I cannot play the other maps on zDooM, so I might as well just go nuts with M13.

[ArchitectofHell]

The first map totally kicked my ass.

I am not your target audience--but the map looked good!

Best of luck!

[Insane_Gazebo]

j4rio said:

Map10 stuff

People keep bringing up those concerns on Map10. (Or is it just you? :P) I should really get at looking into it :)

Replacing the imps with caco's is a pretty damn good idea actually, though, I must admit.

Khaoscythe said:

You need to be shot in the foot for the mass PE spam in Map 13 btw...

Still sucks that I cannot play the other maps on zDooM, so I might as well just go nuts with M13.

It saddens me that you can't play my maps in ZDoom like I can. :( What are the specs on your machine?

ArchitectofHell said:

The first map totally kicked my ass.

I am not your target audience--but the map looked good!

Best of luck!

Ah, but you are my target audience! I want players normally intimidated by extremely difficult maps to really give my maps a go. It's part of the reason I try to make them as good looking as I can :) Or if you've really given it your all, but simply neeed more practice, please go for a wander around them anyway. Like a lot of authors, I'd like to know what you think.

As a side note, I noticed in the nightmares/dreams thread posted recently that quite a few people liked the floating castle. I shall endeavour to make more strange floating architecture if the theme of the map allows it. Perhaps a Precarious II? (People just love falling into lava, right? :D)

[Phml]

Perhaps a Precarious II? (People just love falling into lava, right? :D)

I want to either punch you in the face or praise you, but I can't decide on which. Maybe both.

[Xaser]

If it's a sequel to "Precarious", wouldn't that make it "Carious"? Maybe throw in a "Postcarious" somewhere as well for good measure.

[Gez]

That's preposterous!

I mean, just erous I guess.

[The_MártonJános]

You guys do it perfectly. I suppose MAP15 with a fork to either MAP16 or MAP31 is in progress - what the secret levels will be like? Ultimate Showdown or something else?

[Solarn]

Insane_Gazebo said:

People keep bringing up those concerns on Map10. (Or is it just you? :P) I should really get at looking into it :)

Replacing the imps with caco's is a pretty damn good idea actually, though, I must admit.

I don't know, I like the imps there as they are now. Cacos may be too overwhelming there. And I don't really agree with him on the other parts either. I think they're fine as they are.

Insane_Gazebo said:

As a side note, I noticed in the nightmares/dreams thread posted recently that quite a few people liked the floating castle. I shall endeavour to make more strange floating architecture if the theme of the map allows it. Perhaps a Precarious II? (People just love falling into lava, right? :D)

Yes, please. i think you should make the visual theme a bit different though if you do.

Also, upside down floating castles will never not remind me of this.

[Quasar]

I must also state that I enjoy MAP10 very much just the way it is.

[j4rio]

Welllll I "uvmaxed" that map so I got the slight idea what could be even better. >:P
I find it totally weird that I managed it, but never could handle any of 5-9 maps as a whole (for now). I'd say it's difficulty is comparable to those easier ones in its current form, something above 3-4. For a map 10 slot, it should be tougher imho. (unless you plan changing slots)

That PE area is huge, I'd say it would most certainly not be overwhelming, just a little tougher. More rockets would have to be placed there though. The idea of improving HK part is originally by okuplok, who did whole-map-run as the first (and also 1-9 maps !), and I have to agree with him. As for the arachs... well you got additional soulsphere and almost always 600 cells when approaching them... So why not something more dangerous?

I guess prb+ really hates sunder, just yesterday map 13 ran as it should, now it crashes. (I'm sure I didn't do anything which could possibly be the reason of crashes).
Hopefully the final release will be crash-free.

[Khaoscythe]

Insane_Gazebo said:

It saddens me that you can't play my maps in ZDoom like I can. :( What are the specs on your machine?

System specs are pretty sub-par to say the least...makes me wonder how I can play DVII-23 flawlessly and yet Sunder-08/11 chug down to about 2fps. I dare not even go into specifications honestly, I'm basically playing on a Toshiba Satellite series laptop for I don't own a desktop.

Again, I guess I'll mess with Map 13 for a while...I'm already figuring a route through it despite having to play defensively against the PE's without much health lying about. I'll record a FDA soon when I'm not uberly busy.

[Death Egg]

If you did do another Precarious-styled level, I'd like to see the bricks be black-colored the second time around, since black bricks would probably make it look more intimidating, and badass.

[gggmork]

Cell said:

Ultimate Showdown or something else?

More like Ultimate Slowdown, amirite?

[Insane_Gazebo]

Cell said:

You guys do it perfectly. I suppose MAP15 with a fork to either MAP16 or MAP31 is in progress - what the secret levels will be like? Ultimate Showdown or something else?

Something else :) Unlike my other maps it will have a lightly sillier theme to it, more along the lines of, say, the Mucus Flow for example.

gggmork said:

More like Ultimate Slowdown, amirite?

I hope not :(

[RjY]

j4rio: I've never seen a crash on map13 so you'll have to be more specific. *Something* must have changed for it to go suddenly from working to broken and you need to figure out what it was.

Also I have to agree (and disagree with Solarn and Quasar)—that hellknight teleporter on map10 goes on for far too long.. I could do with fewer stepping stones and jumping puzzles too, but I_G seems to love them. (Speaking of which, if you want to make a really forboding and obnoxious version of Precarious, make the steps invisible and marked only by candles in a huge dark cavern, like in Doomsday of UAC.)

[Quasar]

RjY said:

j4rio: I've never seen a crash on map13 so you'll have to be more specific. *Something* must have changed for it to go suddenly from working to broken and you need to figure out what it was.

Also I have to agree (and disagree with Solarn and Quasar)—that hellknight teleporter on map10 goes on for far too long.. I could do with fewer stepping stones and jumping puzzles too, but I_G seems to love them. (Speaking of which, if you want to make a really forboding and obnoxious version of Precarious, make the steps invisible and marked only by candles in a huge dark cavern, like in Doomsday of UAC.)

Well, I never said I was in LOVE with the entire thing. For example I can barely survive the final battle. But the suggestions being given previously (such as changing imps into cacos) would slow the gameplay down even further and chew ammo like nobody's business.