Sunder - Map20 Appears, finally.

[Searcher]

@ZeitTotala

Running it from the command line from a dos prompt is probably the easiest.  You could use something like the following

C:\DOOM2\PRBoomPlus2514\glboom-plus -file Sunder19-2308 -warp 15

 

 

-file calls any .wad you like (I have renamed my copy)

use the -warp command to enter any map number you like in that mapset.

a launcher might help if this makes no sense to you.

 

Edit: Glad you got this done.

[Archviler]

Finished map 20. What a level. Generally it felt easier than 19 and the fights felt like they got easier as the map progressed, particularly once you hit the YSK area. I liked how it allowed some backtracking at times but it wasn't consistent, and with how generous the map was with megaspheres, lead to some head games on if you should take supplies you might want to save for later.

 

Hardest fights were the last one and...maybe the second fight in the map? Maybe the RSK area until you got a grip on the gimmick with the platforms? It was hard but not oppressively hard like parts of 19 or 16 feel. I think someone else said it felt like the intensity was dialed down a notch after 19 and that's completely on the nose.

 

A lot of the tricks in the level were a lot of fun, like the 1-2-3 section of the YSK area and how the big fight outside changes once you realize the muck rises up after awhile. 10/10, great map, can't wait for 21 and beyond.

[Shepardus]

10 hours ago, ZeitTotala said:

Wow, it really worked! I mean, for some reason "Sunder 2406".wad did not, but I changed the name to Sunder2406.wad (no space, as you pointed) and it did!

Use "Sunder 2046.wad" rather than "Sunder 2406".wad. Basically you surround the entire argument with quotes so it's treated as a single argument, since otherwise the command prompt divides arguments by spaces, so it sees "Sunder" and "2046.wad" as separate arguments.

 

Or, of course, you can rename the file as you did.

[SCF]

Haven't quite finished the level yet, but after clearing the YSK area I was curious:

 

Spoiler

Were the three fights designed to be about equally difficult regardless of which enemies you choose? Or is there a clear harder/easier choice? Because (unless I missed something) unlike with the RSK fight you have to choose before you know what you'll be facing in the later fights. I went with HKs->Barons->Revs and that *seemed* to be the easiest route but maybe it depends on the strategy you use.

 

Anyway, very cool map so far, even if I got lost a few times because I didn't know where I was supposed to go next.

[Insane_Gazebo]

On 12/18/2021 at 10:40 PM, SCF said:

Haven't quite finished the level yet, but after clearing the YSK area I was curious:

 

  Hide contents

Were the three fights designed to be about equally difficult regardless of which enemies you choose? Or is there a clear harder/easier choice? Because (unless I missed something) unlike with the RSK fight you have to choose before you know what you'll be facing in the later fights. I went with HKs->Barons->Revs and that *seemed* to be the easiest route but maybe it depends on the strategy you use.

 

Anyway, very cool map so far, even if I got lost a few times because I didn't know where I was supposed to go next.

I didn't have a plan for one area being harder than the other regarding the three fights. (Though obviously there are some advantages to picking a group of monsters that will infight with one another.) Your route could be the easiest, possibly. (I think I did Barons, HKs, then Revs while testing most of the time.)

[L0l1nd3r]

Found a library full of monsters to kill...

su17-4318.zip

[L0l1nd3r]

I also found a void full of strange worlds with more monsters to kill...

su18-2800.zip

[L0l1nd3r]

I found a soft lock bug in map 20: Linedef 20357 will lower Sector 4025, giving the player the ability to use it as a stepping stone to trap themselves in the Cyberdemon corner. A fix would be to change the tag to 134 so it lowers with Sectors 3859 and 3614.

[Khaoscythe]

Map 20 is actually bearable for the most part (most of the fights were entertaining to figure out and also not terribly difficult when compared to some of the fights in Map 19) though I do have a slight issue with the final fight: why are there no shell ammo pickups right before you begin the platforming to the final arena.

 

Besides that this will probably be another map that I won't finish (similar to Map 17) due to dying too much at the last fight and just shutting the game off, leaving the mapset be due to extreme repetition and boredom. Not that the final fight is 'too' difficult, just doing the same strat over and over again gets tiring (streamed my attempt yesterday for about idk 8 hours?... and no I don't record said attempts nor save them for that matter).

 

Good map overall.. just add more shells before the end!

 

Edit: Maps revolving around heavy voodoo doll usage are best beaten with extremely precise kiting strats. Because of this most of the timed fights can be lamed out and therefore become trivial to deal with. A few alterations to map design may be necessary to combat this to an extent. One example (though not one really based on voodoo dolls) is the second 1/2/3 fight sequence: at the second-tier fight the player can just activate the switch (for me it was Barons), blitz the Arch-Viles immediately after and then just sit in that corner while the Cybie infights nearby.. meanwhile the (Barons) cannot reach you due to there being no way to pinch you from the side. My recommendation is to make a small set of stairs for the (Barons) to cross over to where the Arch-Viles would be to prevent camping if the player chooses to do so. Another instance is the outdoor central hub fight: if the player knows the fight they can just camp by the side of the Mastermind platform and wait out the Revs, slowly circling around the entire area until the moat lifts giving you more room to maneuver. Shout-outs to Nazi Zombies btw.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Khaoscythe

[Red Recluse]

Beneath the Waves of Styx brilliant slaughterfes map resenbles 19 level of sunder wad in first part.Middle temples interesting fight and fantastic green zone in last areana.Many present commander keen and cyber demons bfg frustration.                                                                                                                 

 

[xdude_gamer]

On the topic of MAP20, I would just like to say that "Beneath the Waves of Styx" is an amazing name and it's very brutal.

[Red Recluse]

Glory fight map with great textures and nice midi.

[PixelPerfectDW]

How many maps will the finished version of Sunder have?

[Jacek Bourne]

3 hours ago, PixelPerfectDW said:

How many maps will the finished version of Sunder have?

 

32. A full megawad.

[amackert]

Just finished Map 20 last night. Beautiful looking as always, but particularly mean at points (that was not unexpected, ha). Some really creative fight choices as well, with those switch choice portions that will spawn in different demons. Pretty cool and unique. Sort of working my way back and starting Map 19 now.

[Insane_Gazebo]

Just uploaded a new version with a couple of Map20 fixes, including that softlock in the platforming section and a lock-in that was borked in the 'teleport group x to room y' fight.

Hopefully that fight is finally fixed!

[NoOne]

1 hour ago, Insane_Gazebo said:

Just uploaded a new version with a couple of Map20 fixes, including that softlock in the platforming section and a lock-in that was borked in the 'teleport group x to room y' fight.

Hopefully that fight is finally fixed!

That's a hot start m8....map looks beautiful (as always).

Thanks !!

 

Problem maybe?

 

 

After the fight in the small room with cacos and imps, you go up a lift to the next area (Cyber and Archies and HK's and Imps)

You do it and escape over some pillars , but i fell back into that room instead of falling to the stairway down to proceed. I went back up the lift to go back around but it's blocked still...therefore softlocked in that room I think.

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by NoOne

[Insane_Gazebo]

8 hours ago, NoOne said:

 

Problem maybe?

  Hide contents

 

After the fight in the small room with cacos and imps, you go up a lift to the next area (Cyber and Archies and HK's and Imps)

You do it and escape over some pillars , but i fell back into that room instead of falling to the stairway down to proceed. I went back up the lift to go back around but it's blocked still...therefore softlocked in that room I think.

 

 

You can just lower that barrier from the other side if you fall down, there's just no switch texture to make it clear.

[NoOne]

3 hours ago, Insane_Gazebo said:

You can just lower that barrier from the other side if you fall down, there's just no switch texture to make it clear.

Ah, didn't try b/c there was a texture the other side. Cheers @Insane_Gazebo

[kumanthong]

can you provide a bee-free version for purists please!

[Thelokk]

7 minutes ago, kumanthong said:

can you provide a bee-free version for purists please!

 

How dare you! Blessed be our queen of the hive!

[vetramiga]

made an account for a suggestion @Insane_Gazebo

 

next time you start something like this, maybe video time lapse some of the editor process? 

 

map15 is the most insane thing i have ever seen the doom engine do; given the age of this thread i'm sure the answer is "years" but holy shit i can't imagine how long this took to create.  it's fucking amazing. 

[El Inferno]

@vetramiga, IG used to stream his mapping at some point, several map17 and map18 videos are still up here https://www.twitch.tv/insane_gazebo/videos. 

 

[blue cultist]

Hi, I just wanted to share a map 16 max

 

 

Also, can Insane_Gazebo check the cheeses at the start, please? I don't think they are intentional. The first battle you can leave the area by jumping on the wooden planks. And also the hell knight house you can skip a linedef on the platform that should make the hell knights start chasing you. 

[abax]

Later than intended but finished map 20. Never stop amazing me how beautiful the map looks. About difficulty same as others pointed, not easy but definitively easier and shorter than map 19 and 16, probably similar to map 17. The hardest fights were the first, the last (the only one i had to use midsaving and still need to learn a good way to save cells for the cibye horde) and for me also the red skull key where definitively i need to learn some strats to take down the archviles faster.

 

Also love the idea of the 121 fight (did HK,Revenants and Barons) and how you can manipulate some of the fights pressing differents switches

 

edit: videos of the run and many many mistakes

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by abax

[L0l1nd3r]

A bit later than I would have liked... But life comes first.

YouTube: https://youtu.be/QyAj36s6W_M

Demo: su20-3625.zip

 

[Hirogen2]

On 1/25/2022 at 1:01 PM, blue cultist said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJW9QSNJpXk

Ouch, this is hard to watch. Still blur, motion blur, and, it would appear to me, squished aspect ratio.

[Yasha]

Map01 and 02 of this set on ITYTD are still the hardest things I've ever done in Doom. But boy, I can feel my skills at dodging enemies and managing big groups improving rapidly. Nothing to get out of the noob phase like a trial by fire, huh? The later maps of this barely run at all with my setup (blame Beautiful Doom and GZDoom being a bit of a resource hog), but not like I could beat them even with saves anyway, lol

[L0l1nd3r]

I had a little extra time to run through Babylon's Chimera. I discovered a potential soft-lock where it's possible to skip over a trigger (Linedef 65132) due to running down the stairs too fast. You might want to make the switch (linedef 47778) to open the door repeatable.

 

YouTube: https://youtu.be/OZjAw6Zv9i8

Demo: su15-4240.zip

[Yasha]

One other thing...Sunder is planned as a 32 map megawad, but according to IG a lot of the later current maps are hitting the limits of his editor. So I wonder if maps 21-30 will be about the same size as 15-20 currently, or if he'll be able to make bigger ones somehow (a new editor, etc.). I tremble in fear of what a Sunder Map29 will look like if he isn't constrained by line/thing limits... (I assume 30 will be a relatively-small boss map, but if it's more along the lines of God Machine from Sunlust or Fire and Ice from Scythe...good god)

 

In any case, I adore the architecture of this megawad. My favorite map aesthetically is 31 because green is my favorite color, and judging from the screenshots 20 would also be up there thanks to its strong use of green as well. Despite the complete lack of even a cursory story paragraph in the text, I've never seen a WAD tickle my imagination as much as Sunder: the surreal vistas and oppressive scale make me wonder just what these places are outside of their context as Doom maps.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Yasha