Sunder - Map20 Appears, finally.

[DeletedUser]

Flash from the past, you may want to consider Phml's suggestion of placing Mancubie in MAP11's final room. The current problem with the excessive number of HK's towards the end is they don't keep the player under constant pressure, instead they converge into the central HUB and don't pose a significant threat. The mancubus with it's lumbering slow moment would stay near the teleporter openings therefore ensuring the player is constantly under fire from all sides. To answer the previous query the cells located near the gates were satisfactory in clearing out a large portion of the final force however the gameplay is still monotous and repetitive by that point.

I have a presumption you'll design one map to reflect X-treme considering I recall you adoring the ridicolously tough gameplay but brilliant in requiring a very strategic approach :P

[The Pursuer]

Every other map gave me only moderate problems, but map 09? Jesus christ is that map staying in?

[tehdrunkdemon]

Hell's Vendetta said:

Every other map gave me only moderate problems, but map 09? Jesus christ is that map staying in?

Map 10 gave me problems also. I honestly wish the wad ran better in ZDoom.

[Guest]

40oz said:

I keep getting the illusion that it's just a sky flat being used everywhere.

This. At least for the orange areas set into the floor and ceiling.
The bigger ones in the distance look like a recolored SHAWN texture, which looks cool.

Great to see progress tho. Looking good.

[Insane_Gazebo]

40oz said:

I keep getting the illusion that it's just a sky flat being used everywhere and the background is the Ultimate Doom E4 sky.

I honestly hadn't noticed that until you pointed it out. As I'm sure you're aware, it's just REDWALL tinted orange.

Hell's Vendetta said:

Every other map gave me only moderate problems, but map 09? Jesus christ is that map staying in?

Map09 ran worse on yours than 10? Map10 was the one I had the most trouble with - I even rebuilt the whole thing to try and get the frame rate, well, 'okay' in software mode.

Also, here's an in progress shot of my mapping progress. It's been very slow.

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/4025/map13editwip.jpg

[ArmouredBlood]

oooooh,ciiirclllles. ;)

[The Pursuer]

Insane_Gazebo said:

Map09 ran worse on yours than 10? Map10 was the one I had the most trouble with - I even rebuilt the whole thing to try and get the frame rate, well, 'okay' in software mode.

This isn't the issue i'm speaking of, the framerate only drops very little. I'm talking about the difficulty curve!

[Solarn]

Insane_Gazebo said:

I honestly hadn't noticed that until you pointed it out. As I'm sure you're aware, it's just REDWALL tinted orange.



Map09 ran worse on yours than 10? Map10 was the one I had the most trouble with - I even rebuilt the whole thing to try and get the frame rate, well, 'okay' in software mode.

Also, here's an in progress shot of my mapping progress. It's been very slow.

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/4025/map13editwip.jpg

Holy shit. Another huge level. At least it's not too huge. It looks like it's going to be awesome.

[Guest]

Insane_Gazebo said:

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/4025/map13editwip.jpg

*chokes*

[Philnemba]

Insane_Gazebo said:

pic

First thing that came to my mind was DDDDAAAAAAYYYYYMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!

[gun_psycho]

Holy crap. I can certainly expect yet another Atlus-hard level judging from the layout. (I consider Atlus-hard a step up from Nintendo-hard)

Edit: What I meant by Atlus-hard was "make you wish for Hell Revealed again" hard.

[j4rio]

Hey there. Just wanted to say I found out smt I'm not sure about you know. While clipping through Map10 I discovered a few imps on the first platform right after ravenant-imp section with invulnerability are normally unkillable. All of those imps in that part ignore shooting and become active only upon spotting player. However because they are too far back in there, they never become active and player has no way of getting 100% kills there (chances are kinda low eradicating all those nearly 3000 spawns anyways). This happens on the version on the first page of the topic. I hope it's not issue of my port, but I highly doubt it. Also the link with your old files is not working for me, so if you or anyone could be so kind to reupload...

[Phml]

If I had to guess, I'd wager you're playing Sunder in a port that considers the tree sprites as solid objects blocking projectiles. This isn't normal Doom/Boom behavior, and in ports such as PrBoom+ there is no problem to kill these imps and max map10.

If that is in fact the problem and you're playing in a ZDoom-based port, I think there's a compatibility setting to fix that.

[RjY]

No, he's right. I recall seeing the same issue. It's nothing to do with blocking projectiles. Line of sight itself is blocked. There are a bunch of imps that are too far towards the back of a secluded raised platform to ever be able to see the player, wake up, and walk into a position from which they can be shot.

Although I do not have the time right now to verify it, I believe the imps in question are in sector 344 of map 10 of the version of the wad linked in the first post. (Dated 2009-12-14.) However, it may have already been fixed.

[Insane_Gazebo]

That issue has indeed been fixed :)

Thanks for trying to help, though. Always appreciated.

[Violator]

insane wad lol died on first level a lot was under control kinda until mr cyberdemon came from the toilet

[j4rio]

Also again one more thingie, again level 10 right before the part with arachnotrons where you are supposed to fight cyber on a tiny bridge with a suprcharge in the middle. If you manage to fall into lava, well that lava is not set to hurt player. However you are trapped there anyways, it's just that you won't die.

[Solarn]

Say, how is map 13 coming along? Could we have some more screen shots?

[Insane_Gazebo]

Solarn said:

Say, how is map 13 coming along? Could we have some more screen shots?

Sure thing. It's 90, 95% finished. Mostly just some last detailing work and item placement left to go.

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/9021/sundermap13map2.jpg
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7488/sundermap134.jpg

[Solarn]

Insane_Gazebo said:

Sure thing. It's 90, 95% finished. Mostly just some last detailing work and item placement left to go.

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/9021/sundermap13map2.jpg
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7488/sundermap134.jpg

There are a lot more corridors than usual, but it looks great. The orange walls create an illusion of there being a sky.

[The_MártonJános]

"Orange walls" are actually the orange variants of REDWALL1.
Looks like another metal-styled level. Huge. Frickin' hard. Only for experts... or cheaters! :D
Keep it up!

[j4rio]

I'm so looking forward to see this !!!1!

[General Rainbow Bacon]

Nice! can't wait for this level.

[Solarn]

Say, could you reupload that WAD of unfinished old maps you had in the first post? It's been gone for a long time now and I never had a chance to download it.

[j4rio]

Just curious, is there going to be a version update after finish of 13?

[Foodles]

finished this at the weekend, definitley the hardest WAD I've ever played but I managed it, map07 was the hardest, my favourite was map08 though, hope that episode 2 isnt too far away

[Insane_Gazebo]

Updated and re-organised the OP with all the old screen shots. I'd forgotten I'd deleted most of the links. Whoops.

Re-uploaded my old unfinished maps.

Still getting bogged down with Uni assignments, so little mapping is getting done :(

[Solarn]

Insane_Gazebo said:

Updated and re-organised the OP with all the old screen shots. I'd forgotten I'd deleted most of the links. Whoops.

Re-uploaded my old unfinished maps.

Still getting bogged down with Uni assignments, so little mapping is getting done :(

Thank you.

[Solarn]

I played Macabre3.wad and I have a few observations. The first three maps are, as far as I can tell, completely unrelated to Sunder and aren't even slaughtermaps, although they may even be harder. They also provide a glimpse into the start of the style you have now, especially Map01. Map04 is what later became Pale Monument and Map05 is pretty much a prototype of The Cage (that I really want you to finish, because it's just different enough from the map in Sunder to stand on its own). Map06 has an interesting theme that I'd love to see you explore in a Sunder map (slime with pipes and The Cage's metal textures). Map32 is a pretty ordinary map without almost anything that made your other maps unique, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's fun in an entirely different way.

[j4rio]

The first of maps from oldstuff is actually great! Not that it has any slaughter battle, but still is hard enough to be a tough-nut-to-crack. I'd love to see this map getting inserted between 1st and 2nd sunder maps, though a bit "sunderized". Also liked the pre-cage, it's so different that it has almost no resemblance with the current one. Too bad it's unfinishable.

EDIT: okay I'm taking back that last sentence, just did a UVSpeed/Pacifist of it :P