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Insane_Gazebo

Sunder - Map20 Appears, finally.

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@ Insane_Gazebo:

Is demo recording compatibility a priority for you? Reason I ask is, if you are planning to make any changes to EP 1 in the future, would they include fixes/additions that would break demos recorded on the current version?

Seems like most of the bugs from EP 1 (especially the cybie teleportation bug on map 8) are fixed.

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I'm in the progress of playing through Sunder on ITYTD right now. Holy crap it's hard... But it's truly one of the finest wads I've ever played. Thank you VERY VERY much for making this.

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Qaatar said:

@ Insane_Gazebo:

Is demo recording compatibility a priority for you? Reason I ask is, if you are planning to make any changes to EP 1 in the future, would they include fixes/additions that would break demos recorded on the current version?

Seems like most of the bugs from EP 1 (especially the cybie teleportation bug on map 8) are fixed.


I'll try and keep maps compatible, yeah. I'm not hugely fussed at this point if I have to break a map to fix something I don't like. (Most of the demos I've recieved are from testers, rather than speed runners at this point.)

Also, if you're one of my testers, check your PM's - Map 13 is ready for testing. Hopefully I didn't forget anyone.

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Obsidian Nightmare feedback
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A vibrant constrained ether, uncertain of whether the complementary fiery orange on morbid black was intended to manifest a netherworld industrial look. Alas, I feel the interpretation of the environment shall be subjective to each individual, dependant on their own visual appeal. Although I must say I admired the viscid use of orange, particularly in conjunction with enemy spawns, hence having Cacoes and PE's rise from a circular abyss. Rather appealing to the hungry eye, aesthetically speaking that is.

I found the gameplay to be diverse through mixing in differing strategic and combat styles. The cramped and illusionary intimidating opening was a delight in weaving a web that initially looked oppressive but can be carefully dismantled through an acute approach. I smirk in glee, at perforating Imps and HK's at close quarters, with several other denizens lumbering below. Haunted by the lingering fear of the two Cybers in the distance, making certain one stays light on their feet.

At first I was overwhelmed by the first PE group, then I recalled the position of the first Cyber and thought did Gazebo place him for that very purpose? ;) Directing the PE's like lemmings to the semi pipe area near the beginning, allows one to take cover in the confines of the interior, while our hefty Goat assists in eviserating many a brown annoyance. Ah, this is where the strategic thinking comes into play, it's rare that one has to think tactically where most fights are concerned in contrasting WADS. Normally relying on the tenacious aggressive stance, or experimenting with several styles before one hits the right stroke. The inclusion of that starting Cyber on the otherhand, added a degree of acuteness in gameplay design from what I perceive.

My favourite implementation was the several parallel grid lines on the floor to hinder enemy movement. I thought it worked exceptionally in allowing you to create close quarter and intense fights in cramped areas, but crucially preventing the enemy from swarming and cornering the player. This was particularly evident in the square prison sunk into the floor with the Megasphere and four switches in each adjacent corner. I loved the grim scene of combating AV's and Revs at such a close range, yet not enough to warrant one retreating in frustration. I felt these grid lines added an element of hide and seek, and careful movement, as I had several AV's targetting me at once, yet one can micromanage through precariously hugging corners and pillars.

Their appeared to be a balanced amount of shells, cells etc. in the starting area, along with the consequential later areas throughout. I never ran low on rockets or cells in an intense firefight, perhaps due to using the SSG more often than necessary, given you appear to place shells in abundance in the event one happens to find themselves running terminally low on the higher tier ammo. Furthermore, I was fascinated at your ability to use the same enemy species in groups yet prevent repetition, by modifying the room size to a cramped nature adding to one's apprehension. Although this is a subjective opinion ofcourse and subject to crutinty depending on each player's taste.

For instance, the PE's while always intimidating in groups were a joy to juggle with, as I was able to utilize the architecture more through hugging corner walls tightly and manipulating the enemy to move towards a certain position. I took full advantage of this particularly in the looped circular corridors before the final room, with the 2 Cybers, HK horde and AV's. After flipping the switch, I took a jog through the opposing corridor watching the HK's spawn. Then by the time I made my way back to the dead end tunnel, all 4 AV's came running out in a group.

Health wise, I thought their was a balanced placement throughout. A marginal amount placed near each new opening area so as to allow one to recover after nearly every fire fight, but not too generous in amount hence I preferred your choice to use soulspheres with combat armor rather than Medkits in groups. Any difficulty that stemmed from the combat was from my own inability to dodge projectiles at times, as is expected ofcourse and I don't think it would be objectively accurate to judge health placement by the amount of damage one takes. I think it difficult to make an acute review of a map without being entwined in some form of subjectivity, hence each player may interpret their experience differently.

I say that the semi Imp coliseum, the room which utilized the sandy textures of 'Pale Monument' had an over abundance of shells perhaps. However again I loved having to fight a horde of enemies at near point blank range, yet not enough to swarm over me, it emphasised careful movement and quick reflexes. It would be smashing to see you utilize these grid lines in future maps, as it would prove interesting in crafting very close quarter scenarios such as the end room for 'Pale Monument' while keeping health and ammo supplies on a precariously low amount.

What particularly impressed me was the use of lighting in the dark maze with several AV's. I found it appealing how you mixed in group combat and individual enemies which I felt were placed strategically as their threat was enhanced by the size and shape of the rooms. Reducing repetition through utilizing different play styles.

The final room was phenomenal, not only in the surreal and immersive grasp of the many adorned pillars creating the illusion of that 4th dimension painting, but I felt the AV and Cyber combo created a situation one could associate to a mental game of chess. Through slamming rockets into incoming AV's, then quickly darting to corners and cramming one's self between pillars so as to avoid being charred. I felt the use of pillars greatly enhanced the strategy of the combat. Instead of commonly relying on aggressive playing ability one has to carefully balance between hugging cover, and making frantic dashes when the AV's begin swarming your current position.

The invulnerability was a kind gesture, without it's inclusion slaughtering the initial wave of AV's would have been arduous and annoyable.

Unique in aesthetics and gameplay, not monstrously sadistic, yet not too weak. I felt the difficulty scale of the map was rather balanced. Perhaps more monsters could be added but where to, I am not certain.

For the record, I have no disdain at using ZDoom. It is only when the monster count lingers above 2000 does the proability of the framerate dropping so low so as to make the game unplayable reach sky high amounts. Of course that is a fault of my PC.

Gazebo does it again!

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Obsidian Nightmare was great, although incredibly hard. The first room was especially devilish. I only godmoded through it for now, to know what to expect where and to formulate a strategy, but I came across a nasty error.

On this screen, I could easily go through the blocked passage on either side of the bars.
Another thing that bothered me might only have been my inattentiveness, but I couldn't find even one rocket launcher, despite all the rockets laying around.
Other than those, the map seemed bug-free.

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Sigvatr said:

I think you are supposed to be able to fit through them.

But then why would a switch in the other direction raise them?

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Someone really should make demos of the three new maps. I would, but I still can't beat them, even with using saves.

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Just close to the start of map 10, there is a bunch of columns forming a bridge... not sure if it is intentional but the first one after the hugest column (with rockets on both sides) is a little too high, so when you "climb" back, you have to carefully straferun onto it or you'll fall. (Kinda awkward...)

Map 9 has a lot of illogically placed damaging floors throughout, usually by the point of impossibility to come back. Not a killer bug, but ... weird.

Also is there any way I could get my hands on the latest map? :>

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Map13 can't be played in PrBoom+ for now. I could make demos for 11 and 12, but it would be either tediously slow or TAS.

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Bloodite Krypto said:

Obsidian Nightmare feedback


Your feedback is very fascinating to read Bloodite :) Seems to me you have some ties to the arts in some regard, the way you write. Very interesting, as I happen to be an art student myself.

j4rio said:

Map 10 pillars, Map 09 stuff.


Yeah, it was supposed to be tricky to get back up to the top. It used to be even trickier at one point too. :)

The areas which damage the player on Map 09, though, should be fairly logical, unless I've tagged some areas you feel I shouldn't have? Basically, if you fall off one of the walkways, there will be a damaging sector.

Phml said:

Map13 can't be played in PrBoom+ for now. I could make demos for 11 and 12, but it would be either tediously slow or TAS.


Yeah, that was a DB2 node building bug. Given there wasn't too much to fix with 13, I'll go and do that now, and PM you guys what I hope to be the fixed version of the map :)

Edit: Only error I currently can't fix is the midi file I'm using, as I don't have the software or know how to remove that huge amount of silence attatched to it. Might need some help here :)

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Insane_Gazebo said:

The areas which damage the player on Map 09, though, should be fairly logical, unless I've tagged some areas you feel I shouldn't have? Basically, if you fall off one of the walkways, there will be a damaging sector.


I meant most of the architecture (steel columns) you might fall on are tagged, so you'll die by normally harmless looking floors. One of these is just by the demons at the start, by the green armor.

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j4rio said:

I meant most of the architecture (steel columns) you might fall on are tagged, so you'll die by normally harmless looking floors. One of these is just by the demons at the start, by the green armor.


Do you mean a spot you can't get back up from? I made the main pillars damaging, because I figured the player wasn't getting back up anyhow.

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Insane_Gazebo said:

Do you mean a spot you can't get back up from? I made the main pillars damaging, because I figured the player wasn't getting back up anyhow.


yeah... so guess it was intended after all, idk it looked like unintentionally placed damaging floor to me... never mind

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Edit: Only error I currently can't fix is the midi file I'm using, as I don't have the software or know how to remove that huge amount of silence attatched to it. Might need some help here :)


It seems it should be simple enough but every midi sequencer I've tried appears to have been designed by a lunatic monk jailed for years while being forced to listen to Dance Little Bird consistently. If there's something as simple as "erase stuff past this point" like the basic Microsoft wav editor has, it's well hidden into these clumbersome and wretched UIs.

I was about to say I'm not surprised you're an art student as your maps are so, well, artistic, beautiful, moving, and so on, but truth be told you still have much to learn from the programmers who design audio editing tools, as these guys sure know how to paint an accurate picture of Hell.

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Insane_Gazebo said:

Edit: Only error I currently can't fix is the midi file I'm using, as I don't have the software or know how to remove that huge amount of silence attatched to it. Might need some help here :)


Do you still need help with this? If you can link me to the MIDI I can cut the silence off the end of it, and re-upload.

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Solarn said:

Is there a map 14 in the works? Or at least a fix for the node problem in 13?


I'm still too busy to map right now, so no Map 14 yet. As for the node problem on 13, I thought I sent you the fixed version? I can PM you the link again if you didn't get it, or if I forgot to send it to you.

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Insane_Gazebo said:

I'm still too busy to map right now, so no Map 14 yet. As for the node problem on 13, I thought I sent you the fixed version? I can PM you the link again if you didn't get it, or if I forgot to send it to you.

Nope, I only got the version with the bad nodes. Please send me the fixed version.

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In map 12, the linedef 6781 is reachable before the pillars blocking it are lowered. This might make it possible to get to the yellow key, push the yellow door button and make it to the next room before many of the monsters have teleported in. It’s nothing major, just a minor bug.

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Just updated the OP with the first shot of Map14. Expect some more soon, and if I don't run out of sidedefs (I will at this rate), a finished map will also be expected with a few days for my much beloved testers.

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It's incredible to see the kind of stuff you manage to produce in Doom. Part of me is glad you're producing these fantastics maps for the game I enjoy most playing, part of me wonders what incredible designs could you make in more advanced engines and thinks it's a shame so few people are exposed to your work.

It's getting really orange and brown in those last maps. Not that it's bad - if anything, you manage to make everything look good *and* different despite having the same color schemes. I'm eagerly waiting for that green jade palace you mentioned in a "map idea" thread, though.

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Phml said:

... part of me wonders what incredible designs could you make in more advanced engines and thinks it's a shame so few people are exposed to your work.

Oh man, can you imagine what he could do for a Quake mod? :O Or even just using ZDoom's extra features... Amazing!

Hive Mother looks just as awe-inspiring as usual! I can't wait to noclip and god mode play through it when it comes out!

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You said map05 and map04 can't be finished without cheats.That is a lie,as I finished both of them from a pistol start without cheats (but with quite a lot of saves,I might say).

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