Sunder - Map20 Appears, finally.

[Phml]

Hmm. The only other thing I might have changed on top of the stuff I mentioned earlier is that I recall during one point moving some of the bars to prevent the player from skipping switches. (Like in the above demo.) Maybe that's what is causing it?

I clicked on one of the parts of sector 0 in Make Sectors Mode and immediately saved, it was enough to make the map start properly. Maybe all it needs is a node rebuild.

Actually, what complevel are you supposed to run that demo on? I rarely use PrBoom+ outside of watching demos, and it wouldn't be the first time I've forgotten to do that. (Being half asleep when I posted that didn't help :D)

As far as I understand it, PrBoom+ automatically detects and applies the correct complevel during demo playback (and I assume everyone recording on Sunder uses complevel 9 - Boom compatibility, with lost soul limit removed).

[tempun]

[delete]

[j4rio]

Not sure why but the macabre.wad doesn't want to work at prb+, it crashes when ran. I guess you haven't tested it with prb+ but I thought it's not including any zdoom-only stuff, so I wonder.

[Insane_Gazebo]

j4rio said:

Not sure why but the macabre.wad doesn't want to work at prb+, it crashes when ran. I guess you haven't tested it with prb+ but I thought it's not including any zdoom-only stuff, so I wonder.

Perhaps it's the older node builders (whatever they were) giving you trouble? Try opening them up and re-building them in Doom Builder (or whatever it is you use) and see if that works I guess.

[Insane_Gazebo]

Map14 has been sent to my testers. Once I've confirmed there's no major bugs in it, I'll update the OP with the new version.

I'll also keep the older version of the WAD up, for the sake of demos potentially breaking in case people want to view them.

[j4rio]

A'right got the macabre to work, and I still think that you shouldn't just leave these maps (especially 1 & 3) to rot in oblivion. Maybe they don't really fit sunder, but hell, they're awesome. Maybe post em in a thread collecting really hard speedmaps just by.

E: btw, mind sharing the latest sunder version :-) ? I'll be sure to leave a possibility of bug appearance if I stumble upon any

[Insane_Gazebo]

j4rio said:

A'right got the macabre to work, and I still think that you shouldn't just leave these maps (especially 1 & 3) to rot in oblivion. Maybe they don't really fit sunder, but hell, they're awesome. Maybe post em in a thread collecting really hard speedmaps just by.

I'd rather they didn't, either. What I might do, is include (along with Sunder) a collection of my scrapped maps. (There were two old Sunder maps which only gggmork has played I think, which I'll add.)

E: btw, mind sharing the latest sunder version :-) ? I'll be sure to leave a possibility of bug appearance if I stumble upon any [/B]

Thanks for the offer, but my testing team has already grown to a rather large size :) However, there shouldn't be much left to fix on it, so expect it in a day or two.

[Solarn]

When I die on MAP11 or MAP14 in PrBoom+ and press the spacebar to restart, it quits on me with a message that says "I_SignalHandler: Exiting on signal: signal 11".

Also, at the place with the yellow key (the pillar surrounded by lava): when I pick up the key, monsters teleport in and then promptly get stuck deep inside the honeycombs where they don't do anything other than block my way if I have infinitely tall actors on.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

You need to download the test version of prboom+ 2.5.0.9

[Insane_Gazebo]

DoomHero85 said:

You need to download the test version of prboom+ 2.5.0.9

Think you caught most of the major bugs in your feedback DemoHero, the only one that wasn't a bug, just a confusing texture choice, was the teleporter you said didn't work is actually an exit for several others.

I'll change it to something more conspicuous :)

Looks like I missed a few of the larger honeycomb holes of death too - forgot to take into account archvile jumping as usual, whoops.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

One other thing: Map 13 doesn't work anymore in prboom+

[Insane_Gazebo]

DoomHero85 said:

One other thing: Map 13 doesn't work anymore in prboom+

I just rebuilt the nodes on the map and it seems to be loading up okay now.

[Solarn]

DoomHero85 said:

You need to download the test version of prboom+ 2.5.0.9

Where?

Also, I have no idea what to do after I got the blue key and reached the large open area with the metal structures.

[Insane_Gazebo]

Solarn said:

Where?

Also, I have no idea what to do after I got the blue key and reached the large open area with the metal structures.

There are some little honeycomb stairs heading to the tower in the lava.

[Solarn]

Insane_Gazebo said:

There are some little honeycomb stairs heading to the tower in the lava.

Yes, but there's a metal wall blocking the way into the tower. What did I miss?

[General Rainbow Bacon]

Here:

http://prboom-plus.sourceforge.net/history.html

[Insane_Gazebo]

Solarn said:

Yes, but there's a metal wall blocking the way into the tower. What did I miss?

The hexagon with the support texture is a lift. Damn it, I thought everyone knew that support texture was obviously a lift everytime! Guess I should give it a new texture eh? :) (Or just put in a switch.)

[General Rainbow Bacon]

I found another pit that doesn't damage, I don't feel like making another shot but it's one of the ones near where the RL is. Just make sure all the pits damage near there.

Also, the manc teleport in the big orange tower with all the cybers is too close to the wall.

Where do you dl your midis from? I like all the tracks you choose for your maps.

[Insane_Gazebo]

DoomHero85 said:

I found another pit that doesn't damage, I don't feel like making another shot but it's one of the ones near where the RL is. Just make sure all the pits damage near there.

Also, the manc teleport in the big orange tower with all the cybers is too close to the wall.

Where do you dl your midis from? I like all the tracks you choose for your maps.

Yeah, I went through all the pits and made them damaging. Should be okay now.

Thanks for reminding me about the mancs, I'd forgotten about that.

As for midi's, well, I hunt until I find one I like and make a note of it. This has involved me downloading a shit load of wads I'd normally never play just to try and find some nice music :) (Sadly, however, there's only one more track I want to use. I'm about out of midi's I like. Might have to go and request some...)

[General Rainbow Bacon]

Do you like the kind of midi's AB used in Newgothic?

[Solarn]

Insane_Gazebo said:

The hexagon with the support texture is a lift. Damn it, I thought everyone knew that support texture was obviously a lift everytime! Guess I should give it a new texture eh? :) (Or just put in a switch.)

Oh, okay. I was dumb. Anyway, it's a great map. There might be a bit too many monsters at some parts (the revenants after the rocket launcher absolutely swamped me with nowhere to go), but that might just be my inability to play Doom lately.

[Insane_Gazebo]

DoomHero85 said:

Do you like the kind of midi's AB used in Newgothic?

(I had to go back and check what he used as my memory was a little fuzzy.)

Some of what he used was nice. For the most part, though, he stuck to pretty heavy metal tracks. Given the nature of his maps this made a lot of sense, as they helped supplement the feeling of urgency that the chaotic battles of his maps would also help create too.

However, I'm after tracks that set very specific moods in an attempt to help them supplement my own macabre ideas. (NewGothics music on Maps 2, 7, 11 and maybe 13 actually have some promise with some of the ideas I have.)

Still, finding midi's I like that I feel fit with the ideas I have in mind has proven to be incredibly difficult, as the majority of music in doom maps seems to be dedicated to some sort of intense action or battle, which is very rarely what I'm after. (Specifically, I'm after what one might call 'atmospheric' music, if that makes sense, given how broad a term that is.)

Solarn said:

Oh, okay. I was dumb. Anyway, it's a great map. There might be a bit too many monsters at some parts (the revenants after the rocket launcher absolutely swamped me with nowhere to go), but that might just be my inability to play Doom lately.

Don't sweat it, it's a pretty tough map :)

And like all my other maps, I've got through it at least once without cheating, so the monster/ammo and health balance should be roughly right. (Though with maps like this, there's always a bit of guess work involved.)

[Death Egg]

You could try asking some of the talented Midi artists here to compose tracks for some of your maps. I know pcorf does midis, he composed his entire mod Whisperers of Satan and is doing his community project Doom 2 Unleashed too.

[Insane_Gazebo]

I have updated the OP with a new public release of my WAD, just in time for christmas :) I figured its been so damn long since a release, that I might as well give you guys something to play.

This contains four new maps, and a bunch of bug fixes in the older ones.

The .rar also contains a readme file, which I'm still in the process of working on. So, testers, could you tell me (either in this thread or via a PM) which maps you tested? There's also a bunch of resources I couldn't track down the original credits for, because I'd taken them from larger resource compilations.

I also want to make sure anyone who's made music that appears in my wad is credited and has their worked linked.

Still quite a few things to do, like add a .deh file for map names for those of who are using PrBoom, however I have a number of things I need to do before christmas, so time is short.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy the new maps :) (Lets hope there's not too many bugs :D)

[Solarn]

I tested maps 1-9, if I remember correctly. I also completed 10 and 11, but I didn't give feedback on them, so they don't count.

[Phml]

Earlier I said :

While we're on Map10, the latest version of Sunder gives a "P_LoadSegs: compatibility loss - seg 0 references a non-existent vertex 11347 Demo recording on levels with invalid nodes is not allowed" error message in PrBoom+ 2.5.0.8.

Actually, every map gives me the same message (with the exact same sector 0, vertex 11347 thing)in PrBoom+ 2.5.0.8, whereas these same maps (including 14) load fine in PrBoom+ 2.5.0.7.

Here's a FDA for Map14. It's way too hard for me and I'll doubt I'll make any progress, however I did notice one bug. You can go to the yellow key by jumping down the windows on the left rather than follow what I assume is the intended path to the right, and using the teleport, and then when you come back there's 4 barons hidden in the ground with the linedef raising them on the other side, creating an invisible wall from which you can shoot enemies with relative safety.

As for credits, I'm not big on those but for the interest of accuracy, I played all maps and mostly tested 01, 02, 03, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11 and 12.

Edit : and the other way around ! If you take the intended path to the right and then, after picking up the yellow key, jump from the honeycomb bridge to the window, you get stuck behind invisible infinitely tall imps.

[entryway]

Phml said:

Actually, every map gives me the same message (with the exact same sector 0, vertex 11347 thing)in PrBoom+ 2.5.0.8, whereas these same maps (including 14) load fine in PrBoom+ 2.5.0.7.

wtf? my sunder.wad has 12 maps and 12th level use zdoom uncompressed nodes (XNOD) and it works fine in 2508. probably Insane_Gazebo forgot how to use zdbsb for XNOD nodes.

[Insane_Gazebo]

Phml said:

Map14 Bug

Thanks!

Edit - Just watched your demo and found another glitch. Looks like in ZDoom, the Lost souls spawn at the top of the hexagon tubes, but in PrBoom+, they spawn down the bottom. Weird. Guess I'll just raise the floor height.

entryway said:

wtf? my sunder.wad has 12 maps and 12th level use zdoom uncompressed nodes (XNOD) and it works fine in 2508. probably Insane_Gazebo forgot how to use zdbsb for XNOD nodes.

It's probably just my lack of understanding when it comes to node building that's the main issue :) All I've been doing is using the "ZDSP - Normal" setting for my nodebuilder in DB2 and crossing my fingers. I didn't realise there was a Pr-Boom+ problem. (Turns out I've been testing in 2.5.0.7)

I assume I should have been picking "ZDSP - Compressed Nodes"?

Edit 2 - Okay. What the hell. I just loaded up 2.5.0.8 just to check, and I'm not getting any error messages at all, the maps load fine. Huh? 0_o

[4mer]

Nice, here are some things I noticed with the new version:

CWILVxx missing for maps.
MAP08 Lines 58 and 60.
MAP09 Line 9141.
MAP10 Lots of problems with Nodes related (maybe needs rebuilding).
This map didn't have these problems in the previous (v1.3) release.
MAP11 Lots of single sided lines marked two sided (39 of them).
MAP14 Lines 7715, 7724, 7725 marked two sided.

[Phml]

I'm in progress of doing a slow motion run (not optimized or anything, just to see if I can break the map - easier than normal speed and more realistic than IDDQD) and on the topic of the same bugs I've talked about above, I find it relatively easy, even without slow motion, to jump back to the windows after having triggered both lines and take out the whole horde from sector 1583. Monster projectiles end up crashing on the wall, and even archviles have trouble getting a hit if you hug the wall yourself. I think this is kinda cheap and raising or lowering sector 1583 in a way that makes sense aesthetically so it couldn't be abused for gameplay would be better in my opinion.

If the above is confusing, here's the demo to show what it is exactly I am talking about, around the 1 minute mark or so.