Sunder - Map20 Appears, finally.

[Insane_Gazebo]

Phml said:

I'm in progress of doing a slow motion run (not optimized or anything, just to see if I can break the map - easier than normal speed and more realistic than IDDQD) and on the topic of the same bugs I've talked about above, I find it relatively easy, even without slow motion, to jump back to the windows after having triggered both lines and take out the whole horde from sector 1583. Monster projectiles end up crashing on the wall, and even archviles have trouble getting a hit if you hug the wall yourself. I think this is kinda cheap and raising or lowering sector 1583 in a way that makes sense aesthetically so it couldn't be abused for gameplay would be better in my opinion.

If the above is confusing, here's the demo to show what it is exactly I am talking about, around the 1 minute mark or so.

Nah, I understood what you meant in your previous post and blocked the window off with some extra hexagons. (But not so much it completely ruins the view outside.)

[entryway]

Insane_Gazebo said:

I assume I should have been picking "ZDSP - Compressed Nodes"

No. Normal nodes should be fine if you are using the latest zdbsp (older versions creates compressed nodes by default if I am not mistaken). In any case I can't confirm, because my old version of sunder.wad works fine with 2507\2508

[Insane_Gazebo]

4mer said:

Nice, here are some things I noticed with the new version:

CWILVxx missing for maps.
MAP08 Lines 58 and 60.
MAP09 Line 9141.
MAP10 Lots of problems with Nodes related (maybe needs rebuilding).
This map didn't have these problems in the previous (v1.3) release.
MAP11 Lots of single sided lines marked two sided (39 of them).
MAP14 Lines 7715, 7724, 7725 marked two sided.

Thanks for this, I've gone and fixed up all but the following:

I'm not sure what you mean by CWILVxx?

I've rebuilt the Map10 nodes, hopefully they'll be better now.

Don't worry about the Map11 stuff - alot of that was just to cut down on the linedef count when that was initially an issue. (They're also outside the map, so they shouldn't be an issue as far as I know.)

[Insane_Gazebo]

entryway said:

No. Normal nodes should be fine if you are using the latest zdbsp (older versions creates compressed nodes by default if I am not mistaken). In any case I can't confirm, because my old version of sunder.wad works fine with 2507\2508

Yeah, I just confirmed that was a bad idea. (PrBoom+ yelled at me for using ZDoom nodes.)

What's really, really weird is that I can't seem to reproduce this error. The maps are loading up in PrBoom+ fine in both 2507 and 2508. Unless this is an error you're encountering as you progress through the map? (I'm only just warping to them to see if they load.)

[4mer]

CWILVxx are the level names. The new maps don't have them but the older ones do.

[Insane_Gazebo]

4mer said:

CWILVxx are the level names. The new maps don't have them but the older ones do.

Oh, right. I've left them for now because I'll likely change the order of the maps once I've made more. For now, I'm just making sure there's in-game map names for ZDoom, as well as the .deh file for PrBoom+ which I'm yet to add.

[RjY]

Insane_Gazebo said:

as well as the .deh file for PrBoom+ which I'm yet to add.

Here you go, save yourself a bit of work, put that file in a lump named DEHACKED (there's a download raw code link at the top of the page)

[entryway]

Insane_Gazebo said:

Unless this is an error you're encountering as you progress through the map?

I have no any issues with my old sunder.wad (12 levels). I replied to

Phml said:

Actually, every map gives me the same message (with the exact same sector 0, vertex 11347 thing)in PrBoom+ 2.5.0.8, whereas these same maps (including 14) load fine in PrBoom+ 2.5.0.7.

[Insane_Gazebo]

RjY said:

Here you go, save yourself a bit of work, put that file in a lump named DEHACKED (there's a download raw code link at the top of the page)

Cheers! Wasn't sure if it were that simple or not :)

entryway said:

I have no any issues with my old sunder.wad (12 levels). I replied to

Is this error popping up as soon as you launch the map, causing you to close PrBoom+? I'm honestly not seeing any errors at all in either version of PrBoom+ or maps 13 or 14 when I load them up in PrBoom+. Obviously you guys are, so I wish I knew what dickens was going on here!

[General Rainbow Bacon]

map 13 still doesn't load, it says "gld_FlatEdgeClipper: Too many points in carver."

[entryway]

Insane_Gazebo said:

Is this error popping up as soon as you launch the map, causing you to close PrBoom+? I'm honestly not seeing any errors at all in either version of PrBoom+ or maps 13 or 14 when I load them up in PrBoom+

Ask Phml! I HAVE NO ISSUES with version of sunder which I have on my HDD (it's old, only 12 levels). I do not have the newest version with 14 maps

DoomHero85 said:

map 13 still doesn't load, it says "gld_FlatEdgeClipper: Too many points in carver."

I think it can be fixed, but I need that version of sunder for testing.

[Insane_Gazebo]

DoomHero85 said:

map 13 still doesn't load, it says "gld_FlatEdgeClipper: Too many points in carver."

Grr. I assume this is 2.5.0.7/2.5.0.8 of PrBoom+? Wish I was getting this error so I could fix it :(

entryway said:

Ask Phml! I HAVE NO ISSUES with version of sunder which I have on my HDD (it's old, only 12 levels). I do not have the newest version with 14 maps


I think it can be fixed, but I need that version of sunder for testing.

OLD version. Fuck. How many times didn't I read that right? Someone slap me :( Sorry about that mate.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

Actually it's in version 2.5.0.9 test :(

[entryway]

Insane_Gazebo said:

Grr. I assume this is 2.5.0.7/2.5.0.8 of PrBoom+? Wish I was getting this error so I could fix it :(

It is about GL mode only. Send me a link with the latest sunder and I'll check.

[Phml]

I installed PrBoom+ 2.5.0.8 a few days ago. I copied my glboom-plus and prboom-plus CFG files from my PrBoom+ 2.5.0.6 directory to the PrBoom+ 2.5.0.8 directory as I read that it was alright to do so. I didn't change anything else, except adding Doom2.wad and some PWADS in the PrBoom+ 2.5.0.8 directory.

The error occured while using a shortcut to glboom-plus.exe using the following parameters : "D:\Games\Doom\PrBoom+ 2.5.0.8\glboom-plus.exe" -complevel 9 -file Sunder -skill 4 -warp 14 -record Ok.lmp

(Replace the number after warp for any other map and it will crash with the same error message, even map15 and above which are normal Doom maps).

Just as a reminder, as there's been a fair amount of posts since then, the exact error message is : "P_LoadSegs: compatibility loss - seg 0 references a non-existent vertex 11347 Demo recording on levels with invalid nodes is not allowed". It's always the same, regardless of the map I'm trying to warp in.

The exact same shortcut for 2.5.0.7 ("D:\Games\Doom\PrBoom+ 2.5.0.7\glboom-plus.exe" -complevel 9 -file Sunder -skill 4 -warp 14 -record Ok.lmp) works just fine and lets me start and record a demo on Sunder Map14.

There is no error that I could see in PrBoom+ 2.5.0.8 if I just drag and drop Sunder onto the executable and start playing.

[Quasar]

Jeeze louise, somebody just upload the map and the exe together and let it get tested already. It cannot be this difficult.

[Insane_Gazebo]

I've updated the OP (again) with a slightly newer version of the WAD, containg some new bug fixes.

However, I'm also putting the link here because people keep missing it. (To be fair, the OP has grown pretty large...)

http://www.sendspace.com/file/jrirrc

Phml said:

Weird PrBoom+ error.

Okay. Right. Well, as long as it's working... :P

[Phml]

Jeeze louise, somebody just upload the map and the exe together and let it get tested already. It cannot be this difficult.

PrBoom+ 2.5.0.8 can be downloaded at http://sourceforge.net/projects/prboom-plus/. The Sunder version giving me the errors is the one linked in the first page of this topic.

I'm just trying to give any information that might be useful to replicate the bug as I'm no computer genius. Obviously there's going to be some fluff as I don't know enough to judge what's relevant or not. Should I just say "this is bugged omg plz fix" next time? For that matter I don't even care if it works or not in PrBoom+ 2.5.0.8, as it works in PrBoom+ 2.5.0.7, and if it didn't work I just wouldn't play it in that engine, end of story.

This is where I should say something witty like it cannot be this difficult to understand that not everyone is an IT expert, but unlike some people I can get that different people have different centers of interest and areas of expertise. Still, hardly seems rocket science to understand that berating people for trying to help isn't an efficient way of communicating, unless the goal is to stop all communication.

Okay. Right. Well, as long as it's working... :P

It works for normal playing, but it won't let me record demos. No big deal though, older PrBoom+ version works and I was just mentioning it because I thought it might eventually help port developers if it was a bug and not user error from me. Shame on me for daring to report a possible bug without spending years learning programming first.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

I dunno if this counts as a bug, but at the beginning of map 14 when you're fighting the four revenants (I hate you that btw, j/k I've actually got a lot better at fighting revs cuz of that) it's possible for them to get stuck over the little honeycomb pits.

[Katamori]

I've heard previously about Sunder, but now I had time to try. I used cheats to watch levels, because I realized early, it' too hard for me :D

After MAP08 I felt something strange. When I watched the last levels (especially the Furnace), I thought:

THIS WAD IS THE EVIL ITSELF!

These maps can't made by human been, becuase it's harder than everything which existed previously :O (except Nuts series)

I plyed DV, DV2, HR, HR2, Plutonia 2, Drown in Blood, but this is even harder!!

Moreover, the evil itself thing sounds funny. Yes, I think it too, but... some of the levels contains incredibly amount of brutality and really gigantic architecture which looks non-human. Something similar as Tormentor667's of vader's "gigantic architecture", it's something... strange...

[Quasar]

Phml said:

This is where I should say something witty like it cannot be this difficult to understand that not everyone is an IT expert, but unlike some people I can get that different people have different centers of interest and areas of expertise. Still, hardly seems rocket science to understand that berating people for trying to help isn't an efficient way of communicating, unless the goal is to stop all communication.

Sorry, I came off wrong. That was mainly directed toward entryway and not you, as he's the one that needs to do the testing, with the *same* version of the file, the *same* version of the EXE, and the *same* command line parameters that you are using. If he hasn't done this, he cannot claim to have tested it. Clearly the issue is only going to appear while recording a demo, since the error message plainly states "Demo recording is disabled."

I wouldn't expect you to know how to fix the code end of it. However, it's been going on for like weeks now and it seems like nobody can get the requisite files together, and to me that just seems utterly bizarre, so I felt compelled to say something.

I have a stake in it since I adapted my zdbsp handling code from PrBoom+. If there is an error there, then I need the fix for it myself also.

[Insane_Gazebo]

Phml said:

It works for normal playing, but it won't let me record demos. No big deal though, older PrBoom+ version works and I was just mentioning it because I thought it might eventually help port developers if it was a bug and not user error from me. Shame on me for daring to report a possible bug without spending years learning programming first.

Haha :)

Wish I could help any further, but I run in fear from anything resembling 'code' :) I assume it's just my WAD throwing up that sorta crap, and not that particular version of PrBoom+?

[Quasar]

Insane_Gazebo said:

Haha :)

Wish I could help any further, but I run in fear from anything resembling 'code' :) I assume it's just my WAD throwing up that sorta crap, and not that particular version of PrBoom+?

Since Phml says it doesn't happen in 2.5.0.7 I'd like to assume so, however maybe it just didn't report the problem in the earlier version or attempt to disable demo loading - doesn't necessarily mean the internal issue wasn't actually there and hiding silently.

The nature of the error message suggests to my intuition that something is just plain screwed up. It might be zdbsp's fault, or it might be the reading code in PrBoom+. Either way, that 11000ish number always being the same *cannot* be a coincidence.

[RjY]

All right let me try to make sense of this:

• firstly we have that between I_G sending entryway a version of Sunder with 12 maps in it, and today, I_G moved some vertexes in map10 and didn't rebuild the nodes.

• secondly at some point in the recent past (I guess between 2507 and 2508) PrBoom-Plus has started doing some extra checking on the segs lump of a map. These checks were tripped by the bad nodes of map10.

Since entryway has an old version of sunder he cannot see the errors that Phml (and I) could see.

However the most recent version of sunder as posted by I_G a few posts back (http://www.sendspace.com/file/jrirrc) has had its nodes rebuilt properly and no longer has the error.

Conclusion: there is no problem any more other than misunderstandings, and the fact that entryway has an old version of the wad, unless he's now downloaded the new one. Edit: apparently he has, see the post below this one...

[entryway]

Phml said:

The error occured while using a shortcut to glboom-plus.exe using the following parameters : "D:\Games\Doom\PrBoom+ 2.5.0.8\glboom-plus.exe" -complevel 9 -file Sunder -skill 4 -warp 14 -record Ok.lmp

The latest sunder.wad works fine for me with both 2507 and 2508.

[Quasar]

6_9

[entryway]

DoomHero85 said:

map 13 still doesn't load, it says "gld_FlatEdgeClipper: Too many points in carver."

Fixed in 2.5.0.9.test

[dannebubinga]

I just played through map 11 and loved every second of it!

But I found a glitch.


On top of the "revenant scraper" on the east side, you can strafe-run north and then land on the platform that leads to that "mega imp teleport sector".

Hope you understand what I mean.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

Map 13 still doesn't work. What am I doing wrong?

[entryway]

DoomHero85 said:

Map 13 still doesn't work. What am I doing wrong?

You did not download 2.5.0.9.test