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rf`

Mapgame (FINISHED! :D)

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Mapgame nears completion after years of work (and years of pause), and needs playtesters again. If you find any glaring errors (especially map/texture errors), please take screenshtos of them as it'll help me pinpoint them better.

Its for the Ultimate Doom, for any Boom-compatible port (works in prboom, eternity, and zdoom so far)

Edit: screenshots added!

Edit2: Click here to download the final release.

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Initial impression: Pretty cool

Needs that lump that prevents you from jumping in zDoom, otherwise it's pretty easy to jump all over and ruin the map's progression.

Map 2 : Red key needs some better placement, put it in a room off to the side rather than just lying on the floor.

More to come later when I'm not dead tired.

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Something I should have done when I created this thread.



















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rf` has already heard me gush about this, but for the benefit of the rest of the people here, let me just say that this wad's use of dynamic space (like some of rf`'s other maps I've played) is some of the best, and most extensive, I've ever seen in Doom maps. There are some seriously impressive (as well as unexpected) changes to the map structures during gameplay, opening up new paths and adding new dimensions to places you thought you were finished with. It rules.

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rf` said:
Its for the Ultimate Doom, for any Boom-compatible port (works in prboom, eternity, and zdoom so far)

And Boom, once you extract the BEX patch.

The layouts are nice, and the design in general has come a long way since the beginning (I remember playing this a while back). Increasing the difficulty wouldn't hurt, except in the last level, which could become annoying. I wouldn't reduce ammo or health, but would do stuff to the monster placement and attack deployments to pressure the player more. I'd use lost souls and cacodemons in some places, as well.

The chaingun replacement, I think, would do better with its own ammo type. It also really doesn't give the impression of a machine gun. I'd call it a pulse rifle or something like that. You could, for example, reduce the number of bullets the player can carry to 100 and allocate ammo for the new weapon. Aside from aesthetics, the two weapons now have different functionality, unlike in the standard game where one is a more powerful version of the other, and this would allow you to measure the ammo for each more accurately. It's not like the "cell" ammo is being used for anything.

The palette and colormap are pretty good compared to most edits but the fade to gray effect clashes somewhat with the existing graphics and stands out, especially on a brighter screen or setting. Habit may be involved here but the game artwork already uses shadowing that tends to fade reds to brown, or brown to brown, so there's an inconsistency. The bluish color has less contrast in its range than the original, giving the impression of less variety and while it is nice on the rugs and other places, it doesn't look too good on the UAC logo on the console screens.

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Looks awsome, so damn classic looking I like that. Played it for an bit, those layouts are very nice. I did have some screens though, but I somehow managed to delete those.

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Just finished playing through all 9 maps. Thoroughly enjoyed it. :)

It almost suffered from "WTF did that switch do" syndrome, however, once I got into the style of the problem solving of the maps, it didn't. It seems that most key doors or particular barriers to progress are usually guarded by a number of tasks that need to be completed - not just single flick of a switch. So, merely picking up a key was often a 2 or 3 (or more?) stage operation requiring you to remember certain areas and think about what you had seen previously. however, it was always done fairly and you are generally shown the problem before you start trying to solve it. I'm not sure I'd always want to play with that kind of problem solving but it is well executed and very cleverly done.

And the sentry guns, despite not being too dangerous do shit you up when you hear them. :)


On E1M6, the curved wall opposite the sentry gun in the outside area just before the exit needs some texture alignment.

The teleport door (that takes you to the exit area) on E1M5 has a small HOM at its base (on the non-teleport side). This is really only visible in OpenGL ports but it's there if you look for it in other ports.

The flat SCORCH1 has a name conflict with Zdoom's decals and messes some of them up.

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The sentry guns were actually quite a bit more dangerous originally; they used to use the Spider Mastermind's firing codepointer. AFAIK rf` modified them recently to use the Chaingunner's firing pointer instead, because they really killed the hell out of you.

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Enjay said:

On E1M6, the curved wall opposite the sentry gun in the outside area just before the exit needs some texture alignment.

Already fixed last night.

The teleport door (that takes you to the exit area) on E1M5 has a small HOM at its base (on the non-teleport side). This is really only visible in OpenGL ports but it's there if you look for it in other ports.

Oh, that. I can tweak those sectors a bit, but that was because of the way doom handles middle textures on 2s lines that are taller than the height of that line. I'll see what I can do.

The flat SCORCH1 has a name conflict with Zdoom's decals and messes some of them up.

I'll check in on that. That flat's only used once so it won't be hard to rename and fix.fixed.

esselfortium said:

The sentry guns were actually quite a bit more dangerous originally; they used to use the Spider Mastermind's firing codepointer. AFAIK rf` modified them recently to use the Chaingunner's firing pointer instead, because they really killed the hell out of you.

I did not change them at all. I tweaked their placement in the maps to be less annoying though (especially that last one in e1m7). Question though, should I bump their hitpoints down? As it stands, they've got 300hp, roughly the same as a bull demon.

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This is unbelievably epic. Tons of points for:

- The E1 look and feel. The maps look like they were designed by John Romero himself.
- The awesome layouts of the maps. Obviously while designing these, you were very aware of shape, space, layout and gameplay flow, and your use of slanted corridors is astounding. I applaud you for that.
- The level of detail which neither stands out nor fails to impress the eye. It takes skill to attain a precise and equal distance between the two.
- The brilliant new graphics. They look like they were done by Vader or Thomas Van der Velden.
- Using the UDMX palette. :3

Conc. the turrets: yeah, please lower the HP of the turret to about 200 or something. They wouldn't be a problem with a supershotgun, but as this is for Doom it is a little bit problematic when you typically only have ammo for the chaingun or shotgun.

Also, no cacodemons or lost souls for the first six maps? Is this intentional? Like Enjay (kind of) stated, it almost gets boring due to the nature of the puzzles, and, if I might say, the fact that there aren't any monsters beyond demons/spectres for the first six maps.

(If your answer to that is: the episode is meant to stay true to the original E1, and hence there are no cacos, souls, plasma guns or BFGs anywhere, then that's fine, of course. :P)

But I must point out that in all other respects, this WAD delivers absolute, undeniable quality. Beautiful work. :)

(Now it's time for a nitpick! :O

- Uhh, is that the GF3 Creeper on that one new skull texture?
- Uncontrol? Odd name. :/
- I don't like the new SFALL* textures. Can't you extend their height to 128 or something? They don't look good on high walls (which is what they are used on the majority of the time).
- Typos in the other map names:
- E1M4 - Technical Dystopia
- E1M8 - Thanatophobia)

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Very awesome stuff :) I just played through it, and had a great time! I don't have too much to add to what's already been said, except that the difficulty was right on, which made it very enjoyable to play!

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Jimmy91 said:

- Using the UDMX palette. :3

I can't say for certain, but considering that rf` has used custom palettes with similar coloring for some of his previous releases (such as De Kerker), I wouldn't be surprised if this one was also his own. (I forget if it was in the original Mapgame beta from like 5 years ago). It is a nice palette though; I like the orangey reds.

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Have only had time to play E1M1 so far, and was absolutely blown away by the architecture! It reminds me of KDiZD. The flow is good, it doesn't really become a switchhunt, and you get a good feel for the 3D space you're in. I'm not so much a fan of the light blue in the palette.

One thing: Linedef 1088 (the raising platform before the red key) is set to be a raise once instead of a lift. If you don't get the red key the first time you get up there, say you fall down into the slime like I did, I think you're stuck with no key?

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Jimmy91 said:

Conc. the turrets: yeah, please lower the HP of the turret to about 200 or something. They wouldn't be a problem with a supershotgun, but as this is for Doom it is a little bit problematic when you typically only have ammo for the chaingun or shotgun.

Fixed.


Also, no cacodemons or lost souls for the first six maps? Is this intentional? Like Enjay (kind of) stated, it almost gets boring due to the nature of the puzzles, and, if I might say, the fact that there aren't any monsters beyond demons/spectres for the first six maps.

(If your answer to that is: the episode is meant to stay true to the original E1, and hence there are no cacos, souls, plasma guns or BFGs anywhere, then that's fine, of course. :P)

Intentional; they're eased in gradually for the end of e1m7 and e1m8 (and I didn't use any lost souls in this)


- Uhh, is that the GF3 Creeper on that one new skull texture?
- Uncontrol? Odd name. :/
- I don't like the new SFALL* textures. Can't you extend their height to 128 or something? They don't look good on high walls (which is what they are used on the majority of the time).
- Typos in the other map names:
- E1M4 - Technical Dystopia
- E1M8 - Thanatophobia)


1) GF-what?
2) Looks fine to me. Its different and describes the level and feeling fine.
3) I'll tinker around with them a bit but in the end they may end up staying that way. Somehow I kinda like them.
4) If anything it should be Dystrophia
5) Fixed.

esselfortium said:

I can't say for certain, but considering that rf` has used custom palettes with similar coloring for some of his previous releases (such as De Kerker), I wouldn't be surprised if this one was also his own. (I forget if it was in the original Mapgame beta from like 5 years ago). It is a nice palette though; I like the orangey reds.

The palette is indeed my own, and was not in the first beta years ago. At least, not with the blues.

Super Jamie said:

One thing: Linedef 1088 (the raising platform before the red key) is set to be a raise once instead of a lift. If you don't get the red key the first time you get up there, say you fall down into the slime like I did, I think you're stuck with no key?

Both lines that activate that platform are definitely repeatable.

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More feedback ..

E1M5 gets way too switch-huntish towards the end. Lots of switches that open doors and raise platforms arbitrarily, hard to figure out what to do next.

The final fight in E1M8 is more boring than anything else. And the fences everywhere make projectiles really hard to see. I was hit accidentally a lot.

As someone else mentioned, the turrets have way too much health, glad you fixed it already.

Other than that it's pretty fun, will play it again when the final release comes out.

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No, if anything the problem with the turrets isn't their number of hitpoints, it's their size. They're so thin that the spread of the shotgun makes it miss most of the time. This also makes it really hard to get the autoaim in non-mouselook engines to hit them at all. Along with the fact that they are strangely resistant to rockets (spiderdemons don't feel splash damage), it turns out that the best weapon against the turrets is the otherwise pathetically nerfed chaingun replacement...

EDIT: oh I forgot, also in E1M9 there is a secret sector that can't be entered (sector 661) and two monsters that are stuck, and unable to move (things 217 and 219)

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RjY said:

No, if anything the problem with the turrets isn't their number of hitpoints, it's their size. They're so thin that the spread of the shotgun makes it miss most of the time. This also makes it really hard to get the autoaim in non-mouselook engines to hit them at all. Along with the fact that they are strangely resistant to rockets (spiderdemons don't feel splash damage), it turns out that the best weapon against the turrets is the otherwise pathetically nerfed chaingun replacement...

Should be fixed now. Width(radius) was 24, now is 32.

EDIT: oh I forgot, also in E1M9 there is a secret sector that can't be entered (sector 661) and two monsters that are stuck, and unable to move (things 217 and 219)

Fixed and fixed.

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I remember playing through this the last time a beta version was released, and I loved it then. I've always been impressed by the way your maps are interconnected and, as essel said, how dynamic they are. I have an unpleasant headache at the moment, so I only played the first map, but I'll get through the rest as soon as I can. Just three things I noticed so far:

A few seconds into the map, and I immediately fell off the outdoor ledge and got stuck behind the tree (Thing 389). You can get trapped behind the other tree as well.

Sectors 276 and 277 have different ceiling flats, though they look like they should be the same material.

I still think it's kind of quirky how gibbed enemies play out their normal animation but then switch right into the smoking ashes afterward. This is especially weird when you punch them with a berserk fist.

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Ryathaen said:

A few seconds into the map, and I immediately fell off the outdoor ledge and got stuck behind the tree (Thing 389). You can get trapped behind the other tree as well.

Sectors 276 and 277 have different ceiling flats, though they look like they should be the same material.

Fixed and fixed.


I still think it's kind of quirky how gibbed enemies play out their normal animation but then switch right into the smoking ashes afterward. This is especially weird when you punch them with a berserk fist.

Play Osiris.

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Mapgame is finished and released! Check the first post! :D

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