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Ultimate NMD: Is the /newstuff review overaly harsh?

Does the newstuff review of Ultimate NMD reflect a poorer opinion that yours?  

32 members have voted

  1. 1. Does the newstuff review of Ultimate NMD reflect a poorer opinion that yours?

    • Yes, I love that wad. Awesome classic styled pack!
      15
    • Yes, it\'s a good wad, but there are quite a few flaws (even considering what the wad was intended to do).
      9
    • No, it agrees fairly well with my opinion (I think it\'s and OK wad, but not good).
      5
    • No, I actually think the wad is even worse than the review makes it out to be.
      3


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The review of Ultimate NMD in the most recent /newstuff is surprisingly poor IMO and 3 people have already said they, in contrary, think NMD is an awesome wad (and I agree). So I thought I'd post a poll: Do you think the review is too harsh?

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I really liked Ultimate NMD, and thought that the review kind of missed the point of it a bit.

That said, I'm not sure why this needs to be in a separate thread...

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StupidBunny said:

I really liked Ultimate NMD, and thought that the review kind of missed the point of it a bit.

That said, I'm not sure why this needs to be in a separate thread...


Because the review really dissapointed me and I wanted a poll to see how many people agree with my thoughts. And I don't know how to post a poll without posting a new thread. That's all.

And I agree the point was missed in the review; the point was not to design large, detailed, or unique maps. They were probably not designed to be played from pistol starts either. And saying they are uninspired just don't make sense. Nice to see others agree with me though!

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I liked Ultimate NMD, although, really, some of the maps in the third episode are too short on ammunition, and I doubt it would be possible to do a UV Pistol start Max run on them.

( Well, in theory, with the fist you can kill everything right ? :) )

Seeing a fourth episode coming from Fiend would be awesome :)
And thus the "Ultimate" name could suit better.

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zap610 said:

I didn't know Brandon D. Lade had a brother.


Who is Brandon D. Lade? Never heard of him. Certainly not someone I believe I have a relation with.

EDIT: Just looked in Post Hell and saw something by him. Yes, some of his behavior might remind you of this, but I have no relation with him from what I know. And I don't plan on immitating those types of posts either. I posted a poll simply because I was shocked at someone's opinion. But I certainly don't flame people or argue opinions like those posts did.

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i like it. not _perfect_, i noted too that some maps are a bit tight on ammo, but nevertheless a very enjoyable old school megawad. let's not be picky about subjective things as ratings.

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Torr Samaho said:

i like it. not _perfect_, i noted too that some maps are a bit tight on ammo, but nevertheless a very enjoyable old school megawad. let's not be picky about subjective things as ratings.


So I assume you voted for the second option?

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I really enjoyed NMD, definitely one of the better wads I've played this year

I dunno what all this low on ammo stuff is about I played through episode 3 on UV and didn't have any trouble with ammo. Playing from a pistol start is for suckers anyway

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I dunno what all this low on ammo stuff is about I played through episode 3 on UV and didn't have any trouble with ammo. Playing from a pistol start is for suckers anyway

TROLL

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This demand for pistol starting every single map often has led to compromising later levels in some project and still some people demand it as an absolute necessity or they'd trash said projects.

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I disagree with the review but everyone is entitled to an opinion. Whether he missed the point or not (I'm sure he didn't), he just didn't enjoy it as much as everyone else. So what?

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Mothmonsterman said:

I really enjoyed NMD, definitely one of the better wads I've played this year

I dunno what all this low on ammo stuff is about I played through episode 3 on UV and didn't have any trouble with ammo. Playing from a pistol start is for suckers anyway


What? Its more challenging to do that rather than keeping weapons and ammo from previous maps...maybe you aren't good enough to do it. *shrugs*

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Graf Zahl said:

This demand for pistol starting every single map often has led to compromising later levels in some project and still some people demand it as an absolute necessity or they'd trash said projects.

There is no way in which a properly made map can be 'compromised' by adding extra ammo in the form of a weapon instead of a pickup or by switching some monsters around to make it more demo friendly.

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Kak Home said:

So I assume you voted for the second option?



that's correct. does "what it was intended to do" mean "deliberately underdetailed", as stated in the text file, to recreate the original doom style? visuals are ok for me.

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Graf Zahl said:

This demand for pistol starting every single map often has led to compromising later levels in some project and still some people demand it as an absolute necessity or they'd trash said projects.


[citation needed]

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About all this pistol start stuff, here's what I've got to say:

I believe, and strongly believe, that if, in the case of episodes megawads, either a)each map is fully and fairly playable from a pistol start, b)all maps in an episode (Doom I) or in the wad (Doom II) are fully and fairly playable consecutively, or c)both a) and b), then there is NO design flaw (in terms of ammo) in that wad. I believe that this should ONLY be criticized (in a multi-level wad of course) as a design flaw, and therefore a reason to mark a wad down, if and only if you find yourself running unfairly short on ammo overall even when you play the whole wad (or the whole episode in the case of Doom I) consecutively. I strongly doubt that to be the case in UNMD.

Of course, the one exception is if the text file accompanying the wad specifically says the wad is meant to be played from or fully playable from a pistol start. But I see no such mention in nmdu.txt.

And about recording demos, that is just a luxury. It is unfair in my opinion to mark a wad down because of this. You rate wads on how much fun you have playing them, not how much fun you have recording various kinds of demos with them, right?

I don't mean to be mean, and I certainly don't mean to be insulting people or denying people the right to their own opinion. After all, I certainly don't want to be acting like the (assumably banned) Brandon D. Lade someone brought up earlier today when they detected slightly comparably behavior. I have NO intention of carrying anything on as far as or being as strict or mean as I saw that guy being in his/her Post Hell thread. But I think, I really, really think that this thing about the "from scratch" playability (of course with the exception of wads in which they are specifically said in the text file to be fully playable that way) is a pointless and ridiculous reason to mark a wad down. It is unnecassary, it is uncalled for, it is definitely an insult to the author of the wad that has no legitimacy to back it up, and it does nothing to improve the opinion of the wad you are giving to the community to reference; all in all, the appropriate thing to do is to simply mention that the "from scratch" playability is not good but NOT mark the wad down or let it influence your opinion of the wad. That would be much, much better, not to mention far more appropriate, considerate, and rational.

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Belial said:

... by switching some monsters around ...



As minor as that may seem, if it is necessary to do this it already compromises the level.


Kak Home said:

About all this pistol start stuff, here's what I've got to say:

I believe, and strongly believe, that if, in the case of episodes megawads, either a)each map is fully and fairly playable from a pistol start, b)all maps in an episode (Doom I) or in the wad (Doom II) are fully and fairly playable consecutively, or c)both a) and b), then there is NO design flaw (in terms of ammo) in that wad. I believe that this should ONLY be criticized (in a multi-level wad of course) as a design flaw, and therefore a reason to mark a wad down, if and only if you find yourself running unfairly short on ammo overall even when you play the whole wad (or the whole episode in the case of Doom I) consecutively. I strongly doubt that to be the case in UNMD.



Well said. I agree with this statement 100%.

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Kak Home said:
And about recording demos, that is just a luxury. It is unfair in my opinion to mark a wad down because of this. You rate wads on how much fun you have playing them, not how much fun you have recording various kinds of demos with them, right?

Unfair? You can have any opinion you want on what makes a good WAD, but opinions on other people's opinions are pretty much pointless rubbish because it's a thing they like and do, not you. There are various "specializations" in the community and no "standard" way of judging add-ons.

To a good number demo recording is essential. To us 90% of the fun of the game consists in the more competitive side, either online play or demo recording. There's also other things like designing levels (especially for these more competitive purposes) or trying out new ones. But the most fun part is playing the game as a challenge of one sort or another.

Even if demo recording isn't considered, levels which don't consider starts from scratch make the game too long, forcing the player to rely on save games when deaths occur or forcing them to replay huge chunks to get back to the place they died at. That's also one of the drawbacks of huge levels. Each save game leaves you in a arbitrarily specific situation based on what you did that one time, as opposed to a fixed point with a fixed amount of health and ammo and a constant amount of level areas left, as when you start the level from scratch. This adds an extraneous factor to repalying parts of the WAD which damages playability.

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myk said:

Even if demo recording isn't considered, levels which don't consider starts from scratch make the game too long, forcing the player to rely on save games when deaths occur or forcing them to replay huge chunks to get back to the place they died at. That's also one of the drawbacks of huge levels. Each save game leaves you in a arbitrarily specific situation based on what you did that one time, as opposed to a fixed point with a fixed amount of health and ammo and a constant amount of level areas left, as when you start the level from scratch. This adds an extraneous factor to repalying parts of the WAD which damages playability.


Just make sure you save often. If you save too little, that's your fault, not the author's or wad's fault!

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Belial said:

A good map is beatable from scratch without saves.

Period.


Sorry, but as I said, I just don't agree with that. And nothing will make me agree either. But that being said, you have the right to your own opinion, and I will not directly force you to change it. Period.

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Kak Home said:
Just make sure you save often. If you save too little, that's your fault, not the author's or wad's fault!

Please read what you reply to. That's what I explained destroys the set's playability, and I explained how.

In other words, with each save game, you have a different game configuration (how much equipment and health you have, your location and the state of the level) among an infinite number of possibilities. Having the game rely on that situation every time you die is an unaccountable mess. "Scratch" locations provide, instead, fixed points from where to continue when you're killed.

Personally, I only use save games when I have to interrupt the level. I don't reuse them if I die. Except occasionally when I just want to check what's ahead instead of really playing. Though to be honest, I usually do that with no monsters, "notarget" or something like that.

But that being said, you have the right to your own opinion, and I will not directly force you to change it.

Then I gather you've noticed you were wrong in saying it's unfair to think the way we do.

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Kak Home said:

EDIT: Just looked in Post Hell and saw something by him. Yes, some of his behavior might remind you of this, but I have no relation with him from what I know. And I don't plan on immitating those types of posts either.

Nice try, Brandon. I guess you realized no one would believe that your parents would send e-mails about your banning (from your own e-mail account no less), so you decided to register a new account. Bye.

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I feel... sorry for him.


A review is just that. Whether someone called Citizen Kane Pure shit doesn't make it any less of a movie. If you looked at the reviews of the time, they called it a festering shitpile. Now it's considered one of the best movies of all time.


So really, Don't listen to reviewers and blindly believe every word unless you are a total moron that bases his opinion off of others. But you do that so well anyway, it's no use.

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that has to be the funniest ban on doomworld ever.

i don't see how someone can have a problem with playing a wad that's not rated high enough. you like it, you play it, whatever opinion others may have about it.

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You gotta give the kid credit for at least doing something slightly original. I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone try to impersonate their parents to get themselves unbanned.

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Wow... it really was BDL. To think I thought of checking but didn't. Would have saved myself any replies :)

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