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TheeXile

Pastor taser'd by cops

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For some reason I found this morbidly hilarious. Especially the noise he makes:


There's no way those assholes weren't enjoying that. This is what they fucking live for. :P



And this, of course, is where he inevitably bitches and moans about his startling revelation that, surprise, reasoning doesn't work when people decide they don't care:

Sure, you could say he deserved it because he didn't listen. But personally, that just insults my intelligence.

(Though I'll be eating those words if they actually do find incriminating evidence later.)



Oh well. So much for morality. :P

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What did he think was going to happen when they told him to 'close his eyes'?

That said, US cops are known to bust out the tazter mighty quick.

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Captain Red said:

What did he think was going to happen when they told him to 'close his eyes'?

That said, US cops are known to bust out the tazer mighty quick.

I think maybe he got it into his head to make them have to use force so he could put up some self-righteous argument afterwards. America and freedom and all that.

No wonder they were enjoying that so much.

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Without knowing the full details of the incident, I'm not certain if the pastor was doing anything wrong or if what he did warranted the use of a tazer. I'd say the pastor has a point if they unjustly used a tazer on him without any reason to.

Also, what is with the title of this thread? Are you trying to make a point that you failed to in the last one? It seems completely superfluous.

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Snarboo said:

Also, what is with the title of this thread? Are you trying to make a point that you failed to in the last one? It seems completely superfluous.

Naw. That's just the topic that was on my mind, considering the relevancy.

Bleh I'll just get rid of it.

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Technician said:

Here in Toronto a number of people thus far have died of police brutality, especially with tazer gang bangs.


Haven't heard about that .. (I also live in Toronto) .. that's what I get for staying inside all day.

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I was kinda expecting the Pastor to get up and run away or something that got him tazed, but it doesn't really look like that. Maybe I have poor interpretation but from what I collected from it was this:

Cop: You're under arrest.
Pastor: For what? I didn't do shit.
Cop: because people say you did something and I'm a cop so you're under arrest.
Pastor: So what if you're a cop. That's stupid I didn't do anything.
Cop: Well.. Well.. Ya know what, just close your eyes for a second.
<ZAP>

I still kinda think he should have just saved himself an hour of waiting and harrassment by letting the cops peek in his car, unless of course he did have drugs and dead bodies in there. But either way, what the cops did is pretty fucked.

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On the one hand it was clearly excessive force and the officers' behaviour was inexcuseable, but on the other hand, the guy really is a complete moron and was wasting rather alot of their time over something so trivial.

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GreyGhost said:

The Fourteenth Amendment is trivial?

Fourteenth? The Fourth Amendment is the one about unreasonable searches. "Unreasonable" being the key word here. And as I understand this was a border inspection, it's exempt from that particular piece of legislation anyway (unless that doesn't apply to state borders).

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DooMAD said:

Fourteenth? The Fourth Amendment is the one about unreasonable searches. "Unreasonable" being the key word here. And as I understand this was a border inspection, it's exempt from that particular piece of legislation anyway (unless that doesn't apply to state borders).

From what I'm reading on that page, it doesn't apply to state borders. It keeps referring to "the American border" which I take to mean the borders between U.S./Canada, and any customs checkpoints at airports and seaports.

This whole thing is bullshit. Yes, it's a bit dumb of anyone to challenge the authority of police, BUT if we just let them trample our rights, we're going to end up in a total police state. It's a no-win situation for anyone who gets targeted like this.

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It was really a collision of two really stubborn people. Neither one of the two wanted to agree on a compromise.

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Danarchy said:

From what I'm reading on that page, it doesn't apply to state borders. It keeps referring to "the American border" which I take to mean the borders between U.S./Canada, and any customs checkpoints at airports and seaports.

This whole thing is bullshit. Yes, it's a bit dumb of anyone to challenge the authority of police, BUT if we just let them trample our rights, we're going to end up in a total police state. It's a no-win situation for anyone who gets targeted like this.


The truth might be more disturbing...

The Constitution was actually written for the wealthy like JP Morgan, Rockefellers, Rothschilds, etc and we're designed to be their slaves hence it's called Captialism.

for further refrence

http://www.criticalthink.info/Phil1301/mustparenti.htm

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Danarchy said:

Yes, it's a bit dumb of anyone to challenge the authority of police, BUT if we just let them trample our rights, we're going to end up in a total police state.

Unless collective human stupidity can be fixed somehow, we're on a one-way course to a fate without rights anyway.

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He was being a dick. If he'd stepped out of the car and done what they'd have asked he'd have been on his way much more quickly. A mate of mine who is a cop says that some of the worst people he has to deal with are self-righteous assholes who think they know their rights and spout the old "you can't do this" shit as a first line of defense. They are wrong (as was this guy) and 101 times out of 100 then end up making the situation worse for themselves - just like this guy did.

TheeXile said:

I think maybe he got it into his head to make them have to use force so he could put up some self-righteous argument afterwards. America and freedom and all that.

Could be. Lucky he had the presence of mind to start filming eh?

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Danarchy said:

Yes, it's a bit dumb of anyone to challenge the authority of police, BUT if we just let them trample our rights, we're going to end up in a total police state. It's a no-win situation for anyone who gets targeted like this.


The silly thing is, that the police probably have the right to ask him to do what they did. They weren't trampling his rights. There are almost certainly laws in place that allow them to ask him to comply with reasonable instructions. They explained it quite clearly in a calm manner and didn't ask anything unreasonable and he sat there like a dick refusing to do what they asked. OK, in the UK, it would be unlikely to escalate in the way that it did in the video, but the guy in the car escalated the situation to another level by refusing a reasonable request from a legally empowered law enforcement officer. Even when they said close your eyes, he could have diffused the situation by saying "sorry, I'm coming out" but he didn't.

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What a fuckwit. This righteous stubborn uppity "my rights" Christian asshole deserved what he got.

Where's his formal police training in handling sniffer dogs? Where's his legal counsel advising him of exactly what is "rights" and responsibilities under the various authorities and inspections he was going through? If he's such a "squeaky clean innocent" pastor why did he refuse what was probably going to be the officers opening his boot and looking in the spare tyre well and letting him go on his way?

Cops like co-operation, manners and respect. If you're innocent (or hell, even if you get caught speeding and the guy doesn't have a massive chip on his shoulder) they'll make your life easy. If you act like some upstart dickhead who has a vendetta against "the man" and think you can walk around doing what you want and dictating your own terms to people whose job is to know the law, shit like this happens.

Every video I've seen of someone getting tased is presented as "police brutality", yet all I've seen is increasingly belligerent citizens being asked repeatedly to comply with fairly simple requests until the police are left with either no choice except physical violence or the taser. This is no different.

And yes his little girly scream is hilarious. Someone should make it a ringtone :P

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Enjay said:

The silly thing is, that the police probably have the right to ask him to do what they did. They weren't trampling his rights. There are almost certainly laws in place that allow them to ask him to comply with reasonable instructions. They explained it quite clearly in a calm manner and didn't ask anything unreasonable and he sat there like a dick refusing to do what they asked. OK, in the UK, it would be unlikely to escalate in the way that it did in the video, but the guy in the car escalated the situation to another level by refusing a reasonable request from a legally empowered law enforcement officer. Even when they said close your eyes, he could have diffused the situation by saying "sorry, I'm coming out" but he didn't.


Yeah but one argument for his sake is that he at least was programmed to expect he could reason his way through the situation (unreasonably so, ironically). Maybe he was being thick, stubborn, and even a bit belligerent about it, but in the grand scheme of things there are real villains to worry about. This guy was, in all probability, not one of them. There shouldn't have been any mistake about that from officers in control of the situation.

The real villains that law enforcement officers need to worry about are usually the kinds of people who are not as thick headed, know how to be polite, and will not ever make the 'mistake' of attempting to reason (they have the "right to remain silent", after all :P). When you account for the damage that comes from these cunning people versus the stubborn, self-righteous goats, you realize who it is that really 'deserves' to receive the full brunt of justice. Yet, instead, they're the ones who escape judgment more often than not and are even rewarded for doing so.




My point is, technically 'justified' or not, this is poor moral prioritization.

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It sounds like the police were rather heavy-handed with him. I watched the videos in original post and had some sympathy for him, but then I saw one of his other videos. What a nice guy.

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fraggle said:

It sounds like the police were rather heavy-handed with him. I watched the videos in original post and had some sympathy for him, but then I saw one of his other videos. What a nice guy.

Yikes. They should find him, taser him again and drag him to the nearest padded cell. Fucking crackpot.

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fraggle said:

It sounds like the police were rather heavy-handed with him. I watched the videos in original post and had some sympathy for him, but then I saw one of his other videos. What a nice guy.

I went back and watched the tasering again after seeing some of this and I have to say it really adds something.

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fraggle said:

It sounds like the police were rather heavy-handed with him. I watched the videos in original post and had some sympathy for him, but then I saw one of his other videos. What a nice guy.

Believe it or not, that's exactly what a large percent of christian republicans believe about Obama. This pastor is not exactly an isolated nutcase, I mean.

Though I'd rather not enter into that particular topic, if possible.

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TheeXile said:

Yeah but one argument for his sake is that he at least was programmed to expect he could reason his way through the situation (unreasonably so, ironically). Maybe he was being thick, stubborn, and even a bit belligerent about it, but in the grand scheme of things there are real villains to worry about. This guy was, in all probability, not one of them. There shouldn't have been any mistake about that from officers in control of the situation.

The real villains that law enforcement officers need to worry about are usually the kinds of people who are not as thick headed, know how to be polite, and will not ever make the 'mistake' of attempting to reason (they have the "right to remain silent", after all :P). When you account for the damage that comes from these cunning people versus the stubborn, self-righteous goats, you realize who it is that really 'deserves' to receive the full brunt of justice. Yet, instead, they're the ones who escape judgment more often than not and are even rewarded for doing so.


All fair points. However, seeing it from the other side (through my friend's eyes), cops get people simply refusing to do what they have asked all the time with no legal basis for doing so. What is the cop supposed to do? Just let them go? A guy refuses to comply when they have at least a bit of suspicion about him - should that be it? That would be a gift to criminals wouldn't it? Imagine if a cop could do nothing just because the person they were speaking to said no.

As I said before, the situation often escalates because people get self-righteous and spout off about their rights when they don't know what they are talking about. Here is how a number of exchanges that I have been told about have gone - all of which were to do with minor offences, like maybe taking a piss in the street after coming out of a pub late one night.

Cop: Can I have your name and address please?
Joe Public: I don't have to give you my name.
Cop: Yes you do. I have reason to believe that you were doing X Y or Z and I would like your name please.
Joe: Your not getting it. I don't have to tell you anything.
Cop: Yes you do. Tell me your name or I will take you along to the police station.
Joe: You can't do that.
Cop: I can. That's exactly what I can and will do.
Joe: I'm not giving you my details.
Cop: Fine, I'm arresting you.

Joe Public then ends up at the police station: an unpleasant place smelling of disinfectant and urine, and sitting next to some junkie whore. He may end up getting strip searched and put in a blue "suicide suit" (particularly if he still refuses to cooperate because the police need to ascertain whether he has any drugs on his person or if he is a suicide risk and they need to assume the worst). He wakes up the following morning having spent a night in the cells, lost, cold, disorientated and feeling pretty miserable.

It happens all the time. Of course, my mate never tazered anyone, nor did he crush their head into broken glass or stand on their head later on.

It could have gone like this:

Cop: Can I have your name and address please?
Joe: Yes, It's Joe Public, 15 credibility Street.
Cop (checking with control and finding nothing of interest): OK fella, (chat, chat, chat) well, I think it's time for you to go home. Don't do (X Y or Z) again (possibly issues a ticket).
Joe: Walks home and goes to his own bed.

end of story.

One of the best stories my mate had about this had gone something almost exactly like the first version. The "Joe" was sitting in the police station surrounded by real criminals. Most of them knew each other so the new face was of interest. They sat chatting about what they had got caught for this time: a bit of dealing, a bit of thieving, the usual crap. One scary, smelly, junkie criminal with markers for hepatitis and HIV, rotten teeth and a generally pretty unpleasant appearance asked the "new guy" what he'd done. "I don't know" he said. "They just asked my name and then they arrested me".

Crim: "You mean you refused to give your details?"

Joe: "Umm... yes."

Crim (leaning right into Joe's face): "Then you're a fucking dick aren't you? I'm meant to be here. You could be at home right now instead of sitting here with scum like me. You dick."


Actually, Super Jamie had it pretty well covered in his post.

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Enjay said:

All fair points. However, seeing it from the other side (through my friend's eyes), cops get people simply refusing to do what they have asked all the time with no legal basis for doing so. What is the cop supposed to do? Just let them go? A guy refuses to comply when they have at least a bit of suspicion about him - should that be it? That would be a gift to criminals wouldn't it? Imagine if a cop could do nothing just because the person they were speaking to said no.

Well sure. Even in software design developers don't give the benefit of the doubt to users. Chances are, if you leave something that could be exploited (despite its convenience), it more than likely will be. Likewise, cops are trained (or otherwise learn) not to let people talk their way out of situations when they're suspect. That's understandable.

That said, there's many ways to deal with situations like these. I think part of the problem here is that the cops got up a little of their own self-righteousness by deciding to try to show this silly guy a bit of 'reality'. Even if they're 'right' to have done so, it's still the same line of thinking that this stubborn goat had: Self-righteous pride. They believed in their 'reality' just as the pastor believed he had the right to reason in that situation. In a moral sense, that really makes them no better than Mr. Goat. Just smarter, maybe.


Besides. This is also partly people's idiotic nature. If you owned a pet goat that was being stubborn, you wouldn't shove its face in broken glass and taser it to teach it not to be stubborn. Hopefully. :P

Though of course it's not the cops' job to be peoples' nanny, either.

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