My 2nd Map

[ArmouredBlood]

Finished it last night, still have some things I want to tinker with but I can never remember them after playtesting -.- I posted it in my first map thread but no one's looking at it ... anyway, play it, enjoy it/hate it, comment please.

My own thoughts are it's a little cramped and then too spacious. Think so?

http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/BridgesGoneWildM2.rar

[Creaphis]

Pacing is a tad uneven. I liked the hectic beginning, and wouldn't call it cramped - to make the player fight tough monsters in a small space is something I consider a fair challenge. It then slows down a bit - not because the later part of the level is more open, but because the space behind the player is cleared of monsters so there's less danger. Of course, anticipating this, you've riddled this level with little traps that keep the player from running backwards, but these traps also serve to slow down the action because the player has to advance slowly and carefully. Finally, the player is teleported into another hectic monsterfest, but is given an invulnerability sphere and an easy exit that avoids almost all of the monsters, which is weird.

There needs to be a way to lower sector 496 from the outside of that yellow key area. Otherwise, if the player leaves without getting the key, he can't finish the level. If there is a way to lower that sector, it needs to be more obvious.

You went a little bit overboard with that translucent tag, considering all of the stealth medkits I was finding. Translucent monsters, and monsters that suddenly pop out of the ground for that matter, are best used sparingly, so that their use is actually surprising. The rest of the time, look for other ways to give monsters an edge over the player. Also, it's actually fine if you put monsters directly in front of the player and just let him spray them with lead, to fill the time between a handful of major fights and ambushes.

Now, it's been noted around here that Doomers are all developing the same aesthetic and making the same maps, so don't let people like me tell you exactly how to make a level. See if you can figure out for yourself what's fun and what isn't. That's bad advice for some people, but you're already good enough at the basics of mapping that I'm not worried.

[ArmouredBlood]

Cool thanks for the feedback. I did notice that gameplay slowed after hitting the room with the SSG, but got a system down after 5 or so runs that I could get through it pretty quick. Guess I need to pull out some stuff and even the number of monsters in play. The invulnerability sphere part is actually the secret exit, realized after uploading the map that I made the real exit a red keycard and not the skull -.- It's really there so you can have fun wiping the monsters out, as I originally wanted to have to speedrun directly to the exit. Moving the sphere out of the way will help.

The wall popping up with no way to put it back down and the tons of translucent stuff were mistakes I forgot to put out ... got a little ahead of myself in uploading this.

Now, it's been noted around here that Doomers are all developing the same aesthetic and making the same maps, so don't let people like me tell you exactly how to make a level.

Heh, I'm hearing that on these boards. I kind of have my own ideas on a good map but am not sure on the community's. For one thing I liked scythe 2 more than hell revealed ... eh, enough about my opinions.

EDIT: fixed the problems
http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/BridgesGoneWildM2v1.1.rar

[Zafbot]

I would love to play this...but cant get it working with Skulltag or PrBoom...

I got the first bridgesgonewild map to work though.

[Udderdude]

Ok, this map has some interesting ideas but has some really serious issues as well.

One is the invisible pits that you've placed some barons, etc. in. The player can fall into them without triggering them and you're pretty much screwed once that happens. This is just plain buggy and should be fixed.

Another is all the almost invisible enemies and extremely dark main area. Topped off with enemies popping up from invisible pits, this area is extremely frustrating. The one with the mancubus that popped up had me backtracking across the entire map to get back to where I was once I had to jump off when he popped up.

Speaking of that, the backtracking in this map is atrocious. You should add some teleporters once areas have been cleared to get to various parts of the main room w/ the bridges.

I don't know what you were thinking with the final hell room. IMO you should completely re-do that part so it fits in with the rest of the map and change it you don't get to see it beforehand. Also, put the exit on top of the cliff, not on that big demon face texture wall.

You should also probabally change it so you can't open the room with the 2 barons + rocket launcher until you've got the SSG. And get rid of the transparent revenant right next to the start position. It's crap to get a revenant rocket in the face right from the start when you can't even see it.

[ArmouredBlood]

@ zafbot: hmm could be because I used bridge things instead of the hanging sprites. That or this wad I got off newstuff a while ago that's changed my episode pointers (?) so ep 2 is now a DM simulator and ep3 is a wave fighter -.- little help in getting that to stop would be nice. i have a feeling it's changed by skulltag wad/pk3 in other ways too ...

@ udderdude: I'll fix the pits. The main area is intended to be dark, but it might be a bit too dark. The teleporters is a great idea though, I'll make a main teleport hub ... I originally had a somewhat centered platform area where you could get to the highest bridge and first bridge, but I was having a lot of problems getting it to work right and is probably hard to find for a player.

As I said to creaphis the Hell part was originally a secret exit. I guess it's now the real exit. Which gives me an interesting idea ...

I wanted the player to fight the barons for the rocket launcher before going for the SSG. TBH getting the SSG for that fight would make it a lot less intense, whenever I get the SSG I feel almost in god mode when facing less than 5 monsters and have a little room to maneuver.

I'll move that revenant ... I never stay in the start position long enough when testing to get blasted off the bat >.< That's why I'm posting it here before trying my hand at newstuff, so people can polish it ^.^

[Udderdude]

It's good that you're taking the time to get feedback now. You'd be surprised how many people just toss stuff on the archives.

Another suggestion is to make the bridge outlines appear on the automap. Even if they cross eachother, it at least gives the player a general idea.

If you make the real exit the hell area, you should remove the other exit that requires the red keycard (I couldn't even find the red keycard btw)

You might want to give the player more bullets to help chaingun snipe more of those pesky imps hanging around the main area.

[ArmouredBlood]

Finished working on those things and now you find more stuff right as I'm about to release v1.2 :P I'll do the bridge outlines and add a little ammo, but the red key thing has been totally eliminated and final area revamped. Link it when done.

EDIT: changes done
http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/BridgesGoneWildM2v1.2.rar
PS: Do a run through ignoring the imps, I originally adjusted the ammo that way but now there might be too much in some spots where before there was just enough.

[Udderdude]

Ok, I played through it again. Owing to my playing the map before and knowing where the secrets were, I didn't have any problem with ammo. Speaking of that, you should set the secret sectors as secret.

You can still fall into the pits with barons in them if you approach them from the "wrong" direction.

That stealth Mancubus is still there but thankfully not as much of a pain in the ass.

The final hell area still feels way out of place, and it's really sloppily done. Megaspheres everywhere (You can't not grab them), etc. It feels like you suddenly started playing Hell Revealed 2. As per my previous suggestion, I would completely revamp it to look like the rest of the map and get rid of the stupid amounts of high level monsters and cybs. The difficulty jump/gameplay difference is just too much.

[ArmouredBlood]

Fixed secrets. Where is this baron pit? If you mean the hell knight with the soul sphere I fixed that. And the translucent Mancubus is intended ...

The hell area is now the secret exit and impossible to get to without 2 switches. It kills max kills but that's a secret bonus. Finally somewhat back to what I had originally planned ...

http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/BridgesGoneWildM2v1.3.rar

[ArmouredBlood]

Merged BGW maps 1 and 2, changed the bridge sprites on Map01. Like some final polishing before I submit it to /newstuff (and open the whole can of worms with uploading -.-)

http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/BridgesGoneWild.rar