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leesoer

Adding Custom Monsters in Doom Builder?

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Hello =)

So I wanted to start adding custom monsters to my maps, so I started off with something basic, NamiDarkImp.

XWE won't work on my computer. I read all of the threads related to XWE not working on Vista and have tried literally, everything. I tried downloading all of the versions, messing around with the .ini file, changed my administration privileges, and ran the program in compatibility mode for XP. Nothing worked.

So I tried SLumpeD. It was a huge improvement, I could actually run the damn thing. It crashes every now and then for no apparent reason, but at least it works. I took the sprites and markers etc. from the NamiDarkImp WAD and pasted the into DOOM2.WAD. I went into Doom Builder and tried to make a map using the Doom 2 configuration. I couldn't find the monster sprites anywhere. I was thinking that maybe custom monsters are impossible in Vanilla Doom? This was a disappointment, because I'm mainly a Vanilla Doom mapper. So I changed me config to zDoom (Doom in Hexen Format) and the sprites showed up! I could make a sector and add the Dark Imp and kick its ass, without a problem.

However, eventually there was a problem.
1. None of the weapons work in Doom in Hexen format. When I put a shotgun in the sector, it won't show up in gameplay. I even used idfa cheat code and the only weapons that worked where the fist, chainsaw, pistol, and the chaingun. None of the other monsters worked either! The only functional monster was the Dark Imp. Everything else wouldn't work! What is going on?

So Two Questions:

1.What the hell is going on?

2. Can I use custom monsters in Vanilla Doom?

Thanks!

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- You NEVER edit doom2.wad, nor doom.wad, nor any other IWAD.

- You can't add new monsters in vanilla Doom. You can only modify the existing monsters, but the modding capabilities are limited (sprites, sounds, animations and a little bit behavior through dehacked patches). If you really want a new monster, you will have to use a sourceport such as ZDoom.

- Doom Builder does not automatically recognize modified monsters for vanilla Doom. Their name will always be the same in the editor, but if you replaced the sprite lumps and used the same names, it will show the correct image. Just insert the monster it was before and it will come out right in the game. This is different for ZDoom based sourceport though; if you use DECORATE to make a new monster, Doom Builder WILL pick it up and add it to the list for you.

About the weapon not showing up; have you made sure that the skill settings were all checked? This should be checked by default, but god knows what you did :P

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I'm surprised you managed to paste things into DOOM2.WAD given that SLumpEd refuses to save changes to iwads.

For your weapon problem, the one thing I can see that would explain it is if some sprites for the missing weapons are not found, because, for example, you accidentally deleted them while fussing around in DOOM2.WAD. Just a guess.

Likewise for the other monsters. If the sprites are missing, you'll get invisible monsters at best.

Finally, the reason why DECORATE (and its equivalents in other ports: DED/DDF/EDF/RMOD/etc.) exists is that no, it is not possible to put new thing in vanilla Doom. (At most you can turn decoration items into monsters, or cannibalize the Wolf nazi and Keen, using DeHackEd.)

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Well I always played my IWADS using gzDoom, but I was kind of into mapping for vanilla. I guess I can map for zDoom, I'll make it as vanilla like as possible - to the exception of custom monsters and skyboxes :P

I don't really know what I did, but even if I just play Doom 2 on gzDoom, there are no sprites. Where the sprites would normally be, I see red diamonds with yellow exclamation marks. So I guess I screwed up my Doom 2 WAD :P

Thats okay, I still have the original somewhere on my HDD...

So how do you add monsters to doom then? The way I was taught was to add the sprites to the IWAD that you edit with. (So if your mapping for zDoom, and you use textures/flats from the DOOM2.WAD, you would add the custom sprites to the DOOM2.WAD.) I guess that was wrong...

Can I get just a basic guide to adding custom monsters? What I'm thinking is that I make a dummy WAD, for editing in SLumpeD. I add the sprites to th dummy, and open the dummy in doombuilder to use. But then how do I get my default textures :|

Thanks!

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leesoer said:

The way I was taught was to add the sprites to the IWAD that you edit with.


Ugh. No. All source ports, even Chocolate Doom, support using sprites from PWADs.

And as for DB, you use that "Configuration" menu thingy to tell it which IWAD you use, and you load what you call your dummy wad as a resource file.

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leesoer said:

The way I was taught was to add the sprites to the IWAD that you edit with. (So if your mapping for zDoom, and you use textures/flats from the DOOM2.WAD, you would add the custom sprites to the DOOM2.WAD.) I guess that was wrong...

<history lesson> The practice of merging sprites into the IWAD only applies if you're mapping for the original .EXE or older unsupported source ports that don't support the loading of sprites (or other resources) from PWAD's. Of course you can't upload your mod in a hacked IWAD, so "best practice" is to distribute the sprites in PWAD form, with a batch file to backup the IWAD before merging resources (using DeuTex or Dmadds) and restore it after you've finished playing. </history lesson>

Can I get just a basic guide to adding custom monsters? What I'm thinking is that I make a dummy WAD, for editing in SLumpeD. I add the sprites to th dummy, and open the dummy in doombuilder to use. But then how do I get my default textures :|

I usually add the sprites to the wad I'm working on (between SS_START/SS_END markers) along with the DECORATE lump - which I place outside the markers. Doom Builder will still load the appropriate IWAD's default textures along with whatever other resources you've added that it can recognise.

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[i]GreyGhost said:I usually add the sprites to the wad I'm working on (between SS_START/SS_END markers) along with the DECORATE lump - which I place outside the markers. Doom Builder will still load the appropriate IWAD's default textures along with whatever other resources you've added that it can recognise. [/B]


I have never had Doom Builders to recognize my custom monsters, meaning they will forever show up as ? in my maps. You still can put them in using the right numbers, though - as in, they work in game but you are still stuck with "?" in the editor.

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Hmm...well anyways I don't want to have custom monsters if I'm FORCED to use zDoom configuration. I'm just used to editing in Vanilla I guess. I mean I always use gzDoom to play maps, but I never edit maps specifically for gzDoom's features (like deep water, 3D bridges and skyboxes...)

Somebody mentioned that I can edit current monsters in Vanilla. I REALLY want the dark imp in my next WAD, can I modify the SS Nazi or Commander Keen monster, and change it to the dark imp? I never use SS Nazis or Commander Keens in my maps. If I could, I would change one of them into dark imp, and maybe turn the other into a modified cacodemon or something.

So how do I modify current monsters, so that they work in Vanilla? Also, I guess I will have to modify the main DOOM2.WAD, so lets say I replace SS Nazi with Dark Imp..does this mean that when I play MAP31: Wolfenstein, it will be full of dark imps????

Any help would be appreciated ;)

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leesoer said:

Somebody mentioned that I can edit current monsters in Vanilla. I REALLY want the dark imp in my next WAD, can I modify the SS Nazi or Commander Keen monster, and change it to the dark imp?


Yes and no. You can't replicate the DECORATE behavior. You can do something, though. Have a look at the new monsters in the NDCP2.


That said, it's stupid. Why?

First reason: It's useless. It will not magically make the monster appear in DB2's configuration.

Second reason: It's unneeded. You can still input thing editor number directly. DB will say they're unknown things, but as long as the port knows what they are, it's all that matter.

Even if you don't use map features, map features are not the only thing a port offers. You can make vanilla Doom-in-Doom maps which use effects granted by GZDoom's DECORATE, TERRAIN, GLDEFS, ANIMDEFS etc. lumps. Since you play with GZDoom anyway, you don't have to restrict yourself to not use non-map format features just because you don't want to use the map format features.

Third reason: It's overkill. It's about ten hundred thousand times easier to edit the DB vanilla doom configuration file to add the dark imp in the list of monsters than it is to learn DeHackEd, slaver over the most accurate possible DeHackEd recreation of the dark imp, and edit the DB vanilla doom configuration file anyway.

And... Editting Doom2.wad? No! No! Bad touch! Bad touch!

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Hmmm this isn't making sense to me but i'm noobish at this.
I personally want to make monters in Doom Builder for Doom 2. Not Vanilla Doom or whatever but Doom 2.

How can i do that? I have Doom Builder, Whacked2, and SLump3D on my computer. I only really know how to use Doom Builder good

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"Vanilla Doom" is what the original unmodified Doom game exes are called. Basically, it means Doom without any added features from the many sourceports that exist today.

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ok so, how would I do what i want?

esselfortium said:

"Vanilla Doom" is what the original unmodified Doom game exes are called. Basically, it means Doom without any added features from the many sourceports that exist today.

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If you want to use whacked you need to select an actor that you will not use in your maps (e.g., the commander keen thing) and modify it.

There are constraints and limitations.

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Depends what you prefer to play with. In my opinion, ZDoom's DECORATE is the most user-friendly definition language available to Doom ports, and the fact the ZDoom wiki is very complete helps a lot too. But of course, that requires to use ZDoom, one of its derived ports (GZDoom, Skulltag, ScoreDoom...) or Vavoom (which is not derived from ZDoom but has implemented DECORATE anyway). DECORATE is not the only such language, though: Doomsday has DED, EDGE has DDF, Eternity has EDF, ReMooD has RMOD...

And of course, if you prefer to play with a "purist" port (PrBoom or Chocolate Doom) rather than one of those ports which add a lot of new features and sometime change the gameplay in so doing, you have no choice but to use dehacked/whacked, including all their limitations.

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okay...I dont know what the hell you just said but ok. Yeah i really mean i dont know the difference between all these dooms i just use doom 2. So...

I do use ZDoom however and i dont know how to use the DECORATE thing in Doom builder or whatever you were talking about.

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I dragged this in from the other thread since it's relevant to the discussion.

SamDaMan719 said: (in a related thread)
Hey, I'm making a wad for Doom 2 with Doom Builder and Whacked2. I wanted to know how (if there's a way) to basically make my own enemies? how do i get the sprites into whacked and what not?

To answer the second question first - the sprites have to be in a data wad and given the names of the IWAD sprites they're replacing. SlumpEd can do that for you.

There are several ways of making your own Doom enemies, the most common being-

  • Sprite replacement (with/without custom sounds and/or dehacked patch) - works with pretty much everything.
  • Scripted actors - more versatile but restricted to ports that support the scripting language used.
  • Dissing ZDoom <joke>
One disadvantage with sprite replacement is that more often than not an existing monster has to be sacrified in order to find enough frames for a new creation.

If you're not familiar with Doom sprite naming conventions, these pages are worth reading - Naming conventions for Doom sprites, Adding and replacing Doom sprites, Creating new sprite graphics. They should help you understand how the Doom engine handles sprites and de-mystify the cryptic names they're given.

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GreyGhost said:

I dragged this in from the other thread since it's relevant to the discussion.To answer the second question first - the sprites have to be in a data wad and given the names of the IWAD sprites they're replacing. SlumpEd can do that for you.

There are several ways of making your own Doom enemies, the most common being-

  • Sprite replacement (with/without custom sounds and/or dehacked patch) - works with pretty much everything.
  • Scripted actors - more versatile but restricted to ports that support the scripting language used.
  • Dissing ZDoom <joke>
One disadvantage with sprite replacement is that more often than not an existing monster has to be sacrified in order to find enough frames for a new creation.

If you're not familiar with Doom sprite naming conventions, these pages are worth reading - Naming conventions for Doom sprites, Adding and replacing Doom sprites, Creating new sprite graphics. They should help you understand how the Doom engine handles sprites and de-mystify the cryptic names they're given.


See that helped lol thanks, and yeah that quote was my original question and someone brought me to this thread but I didnt find what i wanted here.

So, I think i might go with the sprite replacement thing
So if I might ask, how exactly can I do that?

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whats the difference between Whacked and dehacked? are they the same? Because i cant get dehacked to work. in the command prompt it says doom2.exe not found, well thats because I dont have a doom2.exe, i only have a doom2.wad so in the .ini file i cant put in a doom2.exe so i hope whacked will do what i need because it works

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WhackEd and DeHackEd should - in theory - produce identical patch files. The main difference is that DeHackEd was designed to patch the Doom executables - which is why it's complaining about not finding Doom2.exe - while WhackEd only creates the patch files. That's probably all you'll need since (apart from Doom95) there are few if any source ports that don't support .dhe patch files.

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ok well thats good.
so all i have to do is get the Sprites i want (I can prolly make my own correct?) into its system so i can replace a monster's sprites with it yes? how would i get a sprite file (.jpg? what format) into Whacked2 system?

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Doom uses a special graphic format that is unknown to all image manipulation tools. You're advised to make your sprites in PNG, GIF, BMP or other lossless formats (definitely not JPG, it's a lossy format that's really ill adapted to sprites) and then use Slumped or XWE to do the conversion into the Doom graphic format.

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Gez said:

Doom uses a special graphic format that is unknown to all image manipulation tools. You're advised to make your sprites in PNG, GIF, BMP or other lossless formats (definitely not JPG, it's a lossy format that's really ill adapted to sprites) and then use Slumped or XWE to do the conversion into the Doom graphic format.


Oh alright thanks

Once i get the correct format how do i get whacked2 to see it and let me use it as a sprite in game

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Having imported your sprites into a data wad (between SS_START/SS_END markers) check that they have the same names as the IWAD sprites they're to replace, then - when creating or editing a dehacked patch - load that data wad (along with the IWAD) and your sprites should be visible when using the States and Sprites editors. If WhackEd can find your sprites - the game engine should be able to.

If you want to make your own sprites here's a tutorial to get you started.

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