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40oz

If Doom 2 were a PWAD, how would you review it?

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zap610 said:
Signals? It just picks up the enviroment as doomguy sees it. That's literally how the map forms.

Yeah, I've always seen it as a scanning device, which needs to be turned off while the guy checks the map. Of course, why it's like it is is best explained according to practical game mechanics, but it's a sensible way of integrating it cosmetically in a concrete way.

Besides, this has to be right because the idea of a device fits in better with the "you are the doomguy" concept than something which puts the doomguy's memory into the game as if it were separate from the player's own memory.

The computer map powerup simply uploads the entire layout of the level into the scanning device.

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DarkJedi188 said:

On closer inspection, Hell doesn't have any computer terminals and/or radar dishes around its caverns.
If Doomguy brings his PDA into Hell then it cannot recieve any signals from anywhere.

That's the case with Doom 3, but not Doom 1. Talk about inconsistency.

At least to its credit, Wolfenstein 3d not having an automap saved its levels from showing their strict square shape, limited size to the player. It also became tougher to find secrets. Crazy mazes with cyberdemons in Doom 2 which don't appear in the map would be fun :)

Saying Wolfenstein 3d's levels are (not) memorable is subjective. I've played Wolfenstein since forever, and later looked through its levels with an editor faster than I'd do with Doom, so I know them all. But sure, Doom is more fun that Wolf in that it has switches, vertical coordinate, and a more dynamic landscape. My only disappointment with Doom is the weak stupid monsters who move slow as hell, get stuck on doortracks and lift edges, do a lot of friendly fire and can't open anything but DR, W1 regular doors and WR lifts. Wolf's nazis have nearly none of those limits. Doom 2, as a wad, at least fixed the damage, health and speed drawback of the monsters.

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printz said:

Crazy mazes with cyberdemons in Doom 2 which don't appear in the map would be fun :)

Indeed. I would only replace those Cyberdemons with Barons and Arachnotrons, and it would be perfect. :)

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but when I'm playing an FPS then I like to experience that particular feeling of being hunted and chased without knowing where I am. It's a very thrilling sensation.
I confess that I used the automap for only 5% out of my total playtime. The remianing 95% of the time I relied on my own sense of direction and my own wits.
Yeah, I ended up walking around in circles, but at least the background music kept me entertained. :)

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myk said:

Practice what you preach. To read well you have to take contexts into consideration.

That's pretty much like saying that if I were a programmer working for IBM and, with a coworker, we made some program separately in our spare time and sold it to some company, our program would be an "IBM production." Plutonia is credited solely to the Casali brothers (no mention is made of TeamTNT in the WAD, unlike in Evilution) because it's theirs; they made a direct deal with id and only they were paid for it.

The brothers were TeamTNT members, and participated in making Evilution, but Plutonia is not a TeamTNT production. It's a Casali brothers creation.


Nowhere in my post is theory about TNT's Plutonia. Plutonia is only Casali brothers work, not TeamTNT and you trying to subvert sense of my post. What I want to tell is that Plutonia was made for Final Doom and is part of it, not considered as being Final Doom itself. But even despite infamousness great Evilution IS Final Doom itself. What make it more complete is perfect Plutonia. They are sometimes considered like two episodes of one storyline (for ex. PSX Final Doom. Summary, with TeamTNT's Evilution and Plutonia made by two (former but at the time active) team members doing only their private commision without others is what we call TeamTNT's Final Doom. End of offtopic.

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GBT3 said:
Nowhere in my post is theory about TNT's Plutonia. Plutonia is only Casali brothers work, not TeamTNT and you trying to subvert sense of my post.

Since you're now saying you agree with us, you'll have to admit you don't really agree with what your previous post argues, particularly in the last sentence:

Casali Brothers. And they are considered as TeamTNT because they did Plutonia while being members of TeamTNT until it have been finished. So Final Doom is frequently considered as general TeamTNT work and Plutonia because it was done by two team members, Dario and Milo Casali. Still, both versions about Plutonia are correct, that one with Casali brothers and that one with TeamTNT.

My "subversion of what you said" is to point out only one of the versions of the facts is correct. Keep in mind this all started with some guy saying "TeamTNT shat out Plutonia" which is what people were questioning (including kristus with the to-the-point statement you felt needed to be corrected with references).

what we call TeamTNT's Final Doom

And wrongly. This is precisely why TeamTNT says both IWADs were made "by TeamTNT members" instead of "by TeamTNT".

End of offtopic.

Try not to do that.

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I dont like some of the levels at all like map 02, 13, 15, 24 and 29
especially map 24 sucks really bad. i just hate the narrow ledge/poison thing :(

some levels i really do like is 01,08,10,27 and 28

Overall i think the most of the levels are way too small and too easy even on UV but thats maybe i played alot of harder wads (alien vendetta etc comes to mind)

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I like MAP24 (The Chasm). It's really quite different compared to all the other IWAD levels, and looks pretty good too!

No-one seems to like Sandy's maps. I think they're mostly good, definitely the strongest mapper in Doom 2.

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Sandy's variety and creativity are good, but his game play suffers particularly from the overuse of powerups, making his levels pretty easy, and he often includes portions with poorer architecture and texturing. His maps tend to have more clearly defined pros and cons. The Chasm, for example, feels underpopulated for its size, but gives a good impression of underground vastness, has some fun areas, including some ambush fights and the relatively unique possibility to run over thin catwalks.

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I've always like Map24. It was very influential to me when I were a young level designer.

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myk said:

Sandy's variety and creativity are good, but his game play suffers particularly from the overuse of powerups, making his levels pretty easy

I'd agree with that. I've always thought that was a sideeffect of developing for the IWAD, like he'd actually been forced to make his levels easy for noobs. Or maybe the maps are just more designed for the handicap of arrow keys and no mouse, which I'd say generally results in a player taking more damage than WASD+mouse.

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