Why does everyone like it much?

[Reevys]

Do you often find yourself asking this question when people go on about a certain map or WAD being totally awesome, whereas you think the complete opposite and wish it would die horribly (and slowly) in a fire? Or maybe it's the other way around, and everyone else thinks something's garbage, but you absolutely love it?

I've done this on more than one occasion, with the 2 most common ones being MAP28 and MAP29 of Doom II. I think they are horrible levels, and it's beyond my comprehension how people can get any kind of enjoyment from either of them.

So yeah, your turn. ^____^

[esselfortium]

Reevys said:

I've done this on more than one occasion, with the 2 most common ones being MAP28 and MAP29 of Doom II. I think they are horrible levels, and it's beyond my comprehension how people can get any kind of enjoyment from either of them.

Let me be the first to ask, whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

[Shanoa]

To me, every map30 of any wads are boring to play.

[myk]

This seems like a trollish thread, given that, in addition to the relatively pushy manner in which it's written, quite often when people say they like these maps they mention why. Recent comments were made about level 29, for example, and someone mentioned level 28 and gave a reason why he thinks it's memorable. I'm certainly not going to repeat myself in each such thread.

So, make good use of your posting ability, for what might slowly die horribly in a fire might be something else than these two maps.

[Nomad]

It's been a long time since I really played through Doom II. I just took a stroll through the both of them (map28 and map29) and I have to agree that they are awful.

[Torn]

Both map is so classic for the hell theme.

Map28 got the weird hellish thing that is also going on in Ultimate Doom episode 3 (or maybe that is just Sandy Petersens mapping style :P).
Still it got some cool moments like 1) the arch-vile in the larger room (I am not sure why, but I think it made a impact on the level), 2) The two spider masterminds (however they were really easy because of bfg and and two invu. spheres, I guess it was for the shock effect). I must admit that part of that level is really ugly too.

Map29 is the living end theme, simply that. There is so many megawad susing that style and it is quite cool. Blood "ocean" and ledge walking, I dunno what to point out. It is just a cool level. What is the reason for you don't like it?

Map21 and map24 were much worser in my book. :P

[Graf Zahl]

MAP28 is average but MAP29 is one of the best in all of Doom2.

For me it's different stuff. Alien Vendetta, for example, is something I could never get excited about and I'll probably never understand why so many people like it.

[wildweasel]

Graf Zahl said:

Alien Vendetta, for example, is something I could never get excited about and I'll probably never understand why so many people like it.

Because it's a megawad, and people always seem to fawn over megawads (at least, ones that aren't "Tribute to Arcade Games").

[printz]

myk said:

This seems like a trollish thread,

I'd see the happy part of this thread, in asking what I like but anyone else hates.

I tend to like 94-96 Doom 2 wads with poor detail and only 2 stars rating, but which happen to have enough monsters and, more importantly, no showstopper bugs. Usually they have a problem with balance that neat, highly appreciated wads don't, in that I'm often forced to run away from cacodemons and archviles and try to win by chainsawing them, while doing fast moves. Hectic.

Speaking of poor detail Doom 2 maps: I think they're the ones fit for city-theme maps. Buildings often tend to be cubic and without much variation in colour, with mostly white walls and small rooms.

[Jodwin]

I don't exactly dislike them, but I don't get it why everyone seems to think it's the next coming of Jesus Christ when a new E1 replacement by Who Ever Bothers With Making One Up appears on the archives. Had they been released as single maps for Doom 2 they wouldn't get even nearly as much praise as they do as E1 replacements/remakes. Talk about Pavlo...Romero's dogs. ;)


And Living End is the best thing about Doom 2...right after the SSG and new monsters.

[dew]

Archvile78 said:

To me, every map30 of any wads are boring to play.

overruled. scythe map30.

[Reevys]

In no way am I trying to start an argument, sorry if it seemed that way. I wasn't even looking for an excuse to slate those 2 maps specifically, as there a few different things I could have brought up. It's just those 2 maps were the first things that sprang top mind when I decided to make this topic, which s just something that's been playing in my mind for the past few days.

Anyways, I think I better give reasons for why I dislike those 2 maps, as at least everyone who likes them have been kind enough to do so.

MAP28, I think, is an insanely mundane looking map, right from the start. The uninteresting layout of the brown area at the beginning, plus the fact it's brown (most boring colour, ever) makes me hate it. The sudden change to the big red area wasn't appreciated, as I actually thought it looked like a totally different map altogether. The spider's all in that one area was pretty cool, but that's probably my favourite part of the level. I didn't like the change yet again in theme as you move onto the next area, and then it happens a few more times near the end of the level. To me, it just felt like 3 different, small maps, put together to make one big map, without any effort to make the areas the same, similar, or even make much sense at all. Add to the fact I think all the fights in the level are insanely dull as well, and I was just left with something that is comparable to being ass raped. Which is bad if you're not into that kind of thing.

MAP29 is much the same, as I hate the way there isn't a running theme in the level, with some areas making little to no sense (what's with the random wood area? The texture misalignments in his section also make weep). I think the enemies in the distance sniping you all the time, with no way to retaliate, was really cheap, and just downright annoying. And then, the thing that other people always get at, the Cyberdemon at the end. I don't want to get into this whole thing again, as I appreciate that it's simply there to people who want the extra challenge, or want to fight a Cyberdemon one on one. But why? Personally, I find Cyberdemon's so easy to beat in a one on one, it is hardly a challenge, yet I also find them incredibly dull to fight. While I think it's fine if people want to fight it, and have no problem with people who think it's the best part of the level. But I honestly hate the section, and think pretty much the same for the whole level in general.

^___^

[The Ultimate DooMer]

This is more of a "post your controversial opinion on popular wads" thread...a bit like a certain Plutonia review etc.

Personally I don't like the so-called classic megawads like MM1/2, Scythe 1 and especially STRAIN - probably down to the random layouts/themes and lack of difficulty (which wasn't lacking in Requiem, AV and Scythe 2, plus the latter looked great), but I think it comes down to people like me and Graf just having different tastes to most.

dew said:

overruled. scythe map30.

overruled. scythe map28. compet-n speedrunner only maps ftl.

[newt]

I never got what was so great about STRAIN either; didn't much care for it, honestly. Memento Mori and its sequel weren't bad; they were just... okay. I've played plenty of classics some time ago and to be honest little of those (and a few others I can't recall) jump out as memorable.

Other than that, I tend to agree with the consensus on WAD x a lot of the time. Though interestingly enough, I've seen Daedalus get a lot of hate and I honestly didn't think it was that bad. I mean, I didn't think it was necessarily great, but it had a lot going for it beyond its problems...

[Enjay]

As a general rule, I'm not a huge fan of hellish themed levels and I also find most of the last section of maps in Doom2 pretty dull (to be fair, a lot of them aren't particularly hellish anyway - just random locations with a hellish sky and some gore thrown around). However, for some reason I really like map29 and I play it a lot, almost as much as the first few maps. I think that it's because it has a bit of everything - most of the enemy types, quite a bit of variation in fight type, some decent interactive architecture and, what's more, I do feel as if I progress onwards and upwards through the map to the final goal of the cybie fight and the exit.

[SnowblindFatal]

What I don't like about most Doom maps is how unimaginative they are. I don't think that doom mapping has progressed much at all since the days of the first Doom. Nowadays Doom mapping seems to be all about detailing the shit out of an otherwise boring map, putting in a few cramped traps with barons or revenants and calling it a wad. To me, all that detailing and fancy looks are nothing but wasted effort. What people should strive for, in my opinion, is clever design and interesting features.

Now before someone comes and tells me that I say this only because my maps look like shit, I admit it. My maps, at many times, look too bland even for my tastes. However, what they do have is actual brain work behind the map's actual gameplay and feature (at least to some extent) unique ideas. At least that is what I've attempted, and judging by the responces, it's not entirely false.

[alexz721]

I remember being incredibly bored by Requiem. I should revisit it.

[kristus]

alexz721 said:

I remember being incredibly bored by Requiem. I should revisit it.

Ditto. And that hasn't changed any over the years.

[Pirx]

alexz721 said:

I remember being incredibly bored by Requiem. I should revisit it.

imo it's a mix of beautiful maps and uninspired ones, put together more randomly than doom 2 for example.

[SFJake]

I know I go crazy over brown map. When I see a map that looks like thousands of others, brown, with the exact same things used as wall etc, it pisses me off... SO bad.

Especially when people like it. I don't want to offend, but even using only the default textures you can come out with slightly more intersting things. And if you can't, get some more textures.. Thats the only thing that broke my enjoyment of maps/wads that the majority seems to like.

I also find that most maps are so tiny, so small, so tight you can't play 2 player co-op and feel annoyed like hell. Occasional small areas, sure, but when its always like that its too much.