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SnowblindFatal

Evil Eye

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Hey folks. This map here is part of NDCP 2, but since people generally quit megawads after the first couple of levels, and since this map has been considered quite unique (and not just by me!), I thought I'd share it this way, too. I'd like to hear what you have to say about it.

I give you two links in case one doesn't work for you.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=30a04b1c57735e3abda4076e811714c8e04e75f6e8ebb871

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6EW0GW12


And before the moral brigade starts swinging their nightsticks: Yes I have asked permission to post this map as a stand-alone version and no one seemed to object.


Oh, and try not to post spoilers here or cover them up somehow.

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SnowblindFatal said:

Hey folks. This map here is part of NDCP 2, but since people generally quit megawads after the first couple of levels, and since this map has been considered quite unique (and not just by me!), I thought I'd share it this way, too. I'd like to hear what you have to say about it.

I give you two links in case one doesn't work for you.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=30a04b1c57735e3abda4076e811714c8e04e75f6e8ebb871

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6EW0GW12


And before the moral brigade starts swinging their nightsticks: Yes I have asked permission to post this map as a stand-alone version and no one seemed to object.


"readys moral SHOTGUN"

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Agree. This map's idea is excellent, easily the best NDCP2 map for me too :-)

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Gah, this map frustrated the ever-loving hell out of me. :P

I can't get past the part with the Hell Knight and the two Shotgunners, though. It obviously requires some lateral thinking on my part to get past, which is evidently not my strong point. D:

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Wow, what an amazingly clever map. I have seen puzzles before but never played anything like this.

The chaingunner took me ages to get past. Instead of running past him into the tunnels, I used myself as a decoy until his misfires detonated the barrels, then ran for health. How's that for thinking outside the box :P

And the BFG switch is so very very mean. I'm glad you put the BFG in there actually, the final encounter would have been annoyingly tedious and difficult without it. Thanks for sharing this!


@Jimmy91: Infighting

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Super Jamie said:

The chaingunner took me ages to get past. Instead of running past him into the tunnels, I used myself as a decoy until his misfires detonated the barrels, then ran for health. How's that for thinking outside the box :P


Haha, yeah, I figured that out after I had already finished making the part. First I thought that I need to rebuild the area, but then decided that it's not a bad thing to give the player numerous options.

Super Jamie said:

And the BFG switch is so very very mean. I'm glad you put the BFG in there actually, the final encounter would have been annoyingly tedious and difficult without it. Thanks for sharing this!


Did you really figure out what to do in order to skip past the final area? If so, then congratulations, you're the first one I hear doing it!



Thanks everyone! I sure am glad that you're diggin' it.

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ROT13 encoded to avoid spoilers:

Vs ol gung lbh zrna V sbhaq gur evtug gvzr gb fubbg gur oneeryf oybpxvat gur OST ebbz jvgubhg fhzzbavat gur Nepu Ivyrf, qvqa'g frg gur fjvgpu genc bss juvpu qvfnyybjf lbh gur OST, gura erzrzorerq gb hfr gur fvyire gryrcbegre gb tb onpx naq trg gur OST tha vgfrys naq hfrq vg ntnvafg gur Fcvqreqrzba

then yes I did :)

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Again... http://www.rot13.com/ to keep spoilers away:

...Naq gevttre gur fubbg ohggba ng gur erq xrl nern, envfvat gur oevqtr gb abjurer va cnegvphyne? Cyrnfr gryy zr lbh qvq guvf fb V qba'g unir gb tb ohtuhagvat.

Nyfb abgr gung gur fjvgpu oruvaq gur OST fuhgf qbja nyy gur rlrf fb lbh pna npghnyyl hfr gur OST. Bgurejvfr fubbgvat ng gur fcvqre ebbz jbhyq gevttre gur nepu ivyrf. Abj gung V guvax bs vg, V thrff vg'f n ovg erqhaqnag, ohg nf guvf jnf bevtvanyyl ZNC22 va AQPC2, gur cynlre jbhyq unir unq nyy fbegf bs svercbjre ng gung cbvag, zrnavat gung gurer unq gb or fbzr jnl gb cerirag hfntr bs gubfr jrncbaf.

Nice job!

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Lrf, V sbhaq gur fubbg ohggba ng gur erq xrl nern. Gur oevqtr gb abjurer jnf pbashfvat, ohg gur jubyr guvat vf cerggl qvssrerag gb abezny Qbbz zncf, fb V nffhzrq vg jnf rvgure vagraqrq gb pbashfr be V'q pbzr onpx gb vg. V frr abj va Qbbz Ohvyqre vg nyfb envfrf gur OST oevqtr, naq n dhvpx cynlgrfg jvgu vqpyvc pbasvezf nyy jbexf svar. V nyfb qba'g xabj jung gur fjvgpu va gur Vzc frperg qvq, ohg V'z tynq V qvq syvpx vg.

V yvxr gur OST va guvf, vg znxrf gur znc tbbq sha sebz n cvfgby fgneg, nf gurer'f whfg rabhtu pryy nzzb gb qrny jvgu gur Fcvqre. Gur jubyr "srne bs fubbgvat" guvat orpnhfr n ohapu bs Nepuivyrf jvyy pbzr naq bja lbhe nff ernyyl nqqf n qvssrerag srry gb gur znc nf jryy. Gurer nera'g znal Qbbz yriryf jurer gur vqrn VFA'G gb fubbg.

The amount of voodoo dolls, triggers and lone sectors in this map is pretty incredible. I've always wondered what would happen if someone sat down and thought of a creative and different way to make things happen that uses the Doom engine in a way it was never intended. And now we know :)

I love this map.

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Yeah, I remember "beta testing" this one. It was interesting, but damn is it ugly! Awesome idea, but in practice I only thought it was "pretty decent".

Also I'm surprised you guys liked it as his previous NDCP map seemed to be hated by quite a lot of people here! ¯\(°_o)/¯

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Guys instead of faffing about with rot13 why not use the spoiler tags?

Super Jamie:

Spoiler

If by that you mean I found the right time to shoot the barrels blocking the BFG room without summoning the Arch Viles, didn't set the switch trap off which disallows you the BFG, then remembered to use the silver teleporter to go back and get the BFG gun itself and used it against the Spiderdemon

Fatal:
Spoiler

...And trigger the shoot button at the red key area, raising the bridge to nowhere in particular? Please tell me you did this so I don't have to go bughunting.

Also note that the switch behind the BFG shuts down all the eyes so you can actually use the BFG. Otherwise shooting at the spider room would trigger the arch viles. Now that I think of it, I guess it's a bit redundant, but as this was originally MAP22 in NDCP2, the player would have had all sorts of firepower at that point, meaning that there had to be some way to prevent usage of those weapons.

Super Jamie:
Spoiler

Yes, I found the shoot button at the red key area. The bridge to nowhere was confusing, but the whole thing is pretty different to normal Doom maps, so I assumed it was either intended to confuse or I'd come back to it. I see now in Doom Builder it also raises the BFG bridge, and a quick playtest with idclip confirms all works fine. I also don't know what the switch in the Imp secret did, but I'm glad I did flick it.

I like the BFG in this, it makes the map good fun from a pistol start, as there's just enough cell ammo to deal with the Spider. The whole "fear of shooting" thing because a bunch of Archviles will come and own your ass really adds a different feel to the map as well. There aren't many Doom levels where the idea ISN'T to shoot.

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RjY said:

Guys instead of faffing about with rot13 why not use the spoiler tags?

I thought of that first, but I couldn't get the color tags working and the spoiler tag isn't mentioned in vb code help

Thanks for telling.

Spoiler

Nomad is a hater and possibly even a furry (not confirmed, though)

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Fatal brings up a good point, however

Spoiler

Fatal is an filthy communist rat bastard and quite possibly loves the cock

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Fatal, if you would be willing to hear a suggestion, it is simple to modify the map to finish with 3x100%. Not sure how much of a spoiler this really is but...

Spoiler

For 100% kills, all the sectors with monsters in can be changed to have tag 80. Then, all the monsters will be crushed at the end of the level when the player presses the button that kills the spiderdemon.

Firstly all the archvile holding areas: sectors 8, 193, 203, 284, 839, 842-846, 849, 851-853, and 897-929 would have tag 80. It is also an idea to change these sectors' ceiling heights to -512, 64 above the floor, so that the player does not have to wait for a long time for the monsters to be crushed. When all the blood starts teleporting the effect is rather striking. :)

Also, the sectors with the barons in the mapless maze: 417-423, 426 and 435 would also have tag 80. Unlike the previous list, these do not require any ceiling height adjustment.

Finally, for 100% items, it would be simple to change things 49 and 162, the two armour bonuses, into, say, ammo clips. No effect would be lost.

I have taken the liberty of preparing a version of the map which implements these changes as described. Please check your private messages for a link.

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Thanks, I thought I had done all that (I remember reading your suggestion some time ago), but it appears I didn't.


EDIT: Actually yes I did fix all those! NDCP2 currently doesn't hold my map's latest version as no one really is responsible for it at the moment. However, the version I posted in this thread is indeed 100% capable. Thanks for caring, though. C:


By the way, what port did you use to get the blood splatter through the teleporters? I'd like to see that, but at least stock GZDoom doesn't work that way (at least without tinkering some options. What options?).

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SnowblindFatal said:
EDIT: Actually yes I did fix all those! NDCP2 currently doesn't hold my map's latest version as no one really is responsible for it at the moment. However, the version I posted in this thread is indeed 100% capable. Thanks for caring, though. C:

Haha, oh dear. Already having a copy of ndcp2.wad I simply extracted map22 from it. It never occurred to me that the map linked in the first post might not be the same! My apologies, I'll download the updated version tomorrow.

By the way, what port did you use to get the blood splatter through the teleporters?

It should happen in either PrBoom or PrBoom-plus in at least Boom compatibility level.

EDIT Doesn't seem to work in the updated version at all! Upon examination it seems you may have fallen victim to the Boom generalised walk-activated crushers bug (as in, the Boom developers completely forgot to implement walk-activated generalised crusher linedefs) Happily on this occasion I believe the particular line special you used, 12160, is exactly the same as the regular type 25, so may I suggest changing the types of linedefs 4679, 4681 and 4685 to 25?

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Oh dear. I'm not entirely clear on the boom ports' development. Is this something that won't get fixed in the near future? If so, I'll do as you said and re-upload it to the archives and whatnot.

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Under Boom compatibility, PrBoom is emulating an older engine which isn't updated anymore. People use its behavior, much like they sometimes use standard vanilla behavior, so that playing can be consistent between players. Additionally, of course, since Boom features (even if not under exact Boom behavior) are popular and supported by many engines, it makes it easier to make the WAD work under different engines.

The exact and unchanging Boom behavior provided by PrBoom is good for demo recording, where people can share how well they did playing and time won't make resulting demos obsolete, or simply so that when someone does something in the level another can "understand it" clearly by being able to replicate it under the same engine functionality. If not, small quirks and differences between engines that support Boom in a looser fashion can sometimes allow or rule out reaching a certain spot under certain circumstances or the like.

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heh, really cool map

got all three of the secrets by myself, i was wondering what that one teleporter was for (thought it was just making me waste my time).


very creative but there is a pretty funny bug that i ran into on my first time in the end room

Spoiler

you can just run around the spider demon instead of doing the switch maze

there's enough room and you won't die

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Yeah, I'm aware of that, but I really didn't figure out how to make it narrow enough and still have the mastermind operate normally. It seemed to get stuck quite easily if I remember right.

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I like it. I thoroughly explored every room and saved after each puzzle so I was able to get the BFG and finish the level that way.

At first, it seemed to be very arbitrarily chosen whether a given area would act as "silent" or not. It took a while before I realized that it's the gaze of the titular eyes that one must seek to avoid.

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Great map, confused me the first time I opened it and shot the barrels and was ambushed by a 100 archviles.

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Creaphis said:

I like it. I thoroughly explored every room and saved after each puzzle so I was able to get the BFG and finish the level that way.

At first, it seemed to be very arbitrarily chosen whether a given area would act as "silent" or not. It took a while before I realized that it's the gaze of the titular eyes that one must seek to avoid.


Yeah, it was in the archvile room before I realized...

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I liked it. Would like to see more of this kinds of map. I did figure I could just run around the spider in the end, but I decided to do what the map obviously wanted me to do.

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Completed it while touring the NDCP2 without spoils!

Very refreshing concept. :)

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Am I the only person who hated this map?

I played it recently and couldn't even get past the first 2 rooms. The only thing you can do is open a door or else 15 arch viles appear and kill you.

If this is Doom's idea of "puzzles" it's just frustrating instead of clever.

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No, it is clever. You obviously misuderstood the idea of the map. You simply don't have to wake those Archviles up and that happens when you ... do a wrong thing

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