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Baby Bonnie Hood

Grosse vs Spiderdemon

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Having recently finished the Wolf3D TC, I've been wondering about a few things. One of them being, as the title says, a hypothetical fight between Hans Grosse and the Spider Mastermind. Who would win, the one with the dual chainguns or the one with the super chaingun?

Also, Spear of Destiny's final level looked like Doom if it was made in the Wolf3D engine. It made me think about B.J. being in Doom itself, fighting through all the non-cubical fake-3D environments against the denizens of hell with only his knife, pistol, machine gun, not-the-Doom-chaingun, and 99-bullet limit. Someone should make a WAD out of that.

And just to be funny: Angel of Death (SoD's final boss) vs an imp, who'd win?

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Spiderdemon would win against Hans Grosse, purely because of hitpoint amount: 3000 vs 1200. They have about the same firepower. Spiderdemon's disadvantage is that it has a pain chance, unlike Grosse. But unlike Grosse, it's the spider that does continuous damage. Grosse only throws 6 (or 5?) shots before moving to another spot.

I'd more so compare the angel of death to a baron of hell. 2000 vs 1000 hitpoints, BUT the angel of death has the suicidal habit of stopping to do nothing, giving the baron enough time to claw that thing to death.

That said, I'd really like a wolf3d angel of death into Doom's bestiary, but then someone with tallent would have to draw the side sprites.

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The final Mission of "Spear of Destiny: The Ultimate Challenge" (the second official mission pack for SOD), where B.J must stop Hitler from using the Spear of Destiny to bring back weapons from the future, is set in a Doom like base.

It goes as far as to actually use some Doom textures (computer screens and most notably the UAC marked crates).

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Hans would win by far - in Wolf3D he could reduce you to 100 to 0 in a split second, so the cyberdemon won't be able to retaliate.

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arrrgh said:

Hans would win by far - in Wolf3D he could reduce you to 100 to 0 in a split second, so the cyberdemon won't be able to retaliate.


But Wolf3D had an entirely different damage system and no player armor, but yeah, the firing rate of bosses was just sick.

Regarding who'd win I'd say it depends on the setting: if Grosse has the firing power of two regular doom chaingunners and there's enough distance between spidey as to spread the "super chaingun" pellets enough, then he'd already have an enormous advantage, and the spider probably wouldn't be able to shoot back from the continuous pain. With twin Doomguy's or Wolf3D chainguns, it would be even more dramatic, and would probably kill spidey in less than 40 seconds.

The only way spidey could ever win this, is by being close enough to catch all pellets, and having some obstables to interrupt line of sight to give it some breathing room.

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With those rules, I guess it'd just be cruel to throw Spidey up against the Death Knight or Hitler. ^_^

Of course, Doom damage wouldn't necessarily scale directly with Wolfenstein damage. It's not unlikely that a UAC chaingun from the 21st century would be more powerful than one from the 1940s. That's getting kind of abstract, though, and there's not really any way to quantify it.

Oh, and while I'm not crazy about the game as a whole, the final mission of Spear of Destiny was awesome.

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So nobody has used the aforementioned TC to simply try those fights? Load the TC with a pwad containing the needed sprites and sounds. Select a level that is suitably arena-ish. Use the console to summon monsters, some of them friendly the rest not, so that they'd fight.

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The Wolfenstein damage can be approximated by two simulaneous Sergeant attacks, both damage and accuracy wise. Hans Grosse shoots 5 or 6 (don't remember) consecutive shots at a rate slightly faster than that of the Arachnotron.

The Death Knight simply adds Mancubus fireballs to the mix, that do a bit more damage. I know what I'm talking about, I'm not describing Wolfendoom which really has the Mancubus reskinned.

In any case, the spiderdemon has more health and more persistent firepower. Both enemies will get close and attack that way.

In fact, I think the Spiderdemon is the best boss killer. Everyone from Hexen and Heretic gets it from him.

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printz said:

In fact, I think the Spiderdemon is the best boss killer. Everyone from Hexen and Heretic gets it from him.


Heh, that is amazing as we often just say (s)he / it sucks and the cyberdemon is a better boss. :P

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Hans should win easily if - when not firing - he stands side-on to Spidey so as to not present a target.

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printz said:

I'd really like a wolf3d angel of death into Doom's bestiary, but then someone with tallent would have to draw the side sprites.


Alternately, it could just be immune to infighting; not taking any friendly fire damage and going only after the player no matter what.

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Vermil said:

The final Mission of "Spear of Destiny: The Ultimate Challenge" (the second official mission pack for SOD), where B.J must stop Hitler from using the Spear of Destiny to bring back weapons from the future, is set in a Doom like base.

It goes as far as to actually use some Doom textures (computer screens and most notably the UAC marked crates).


Got pics of this?

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Just threw together a DEH patch that gives the chaingun guy 2x firing speed and no pain chance(similar to Hans) and a small level with just a spiderdemon and chaingun guy, and he takes down the spidey in under a minute, even with only 70HP.

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Vermil said:

The final Mission of "Spear of Destiny: The Ultimate Challenge".... is set in a Doom like base...It goes as far as to actually use some Doom textures (computer screens and most notably the UAC marked crates).


Lol. Well...Doom has WolfenDoom. Wolf 3D has.... Doomenstein? Or Ersatz Doom? ;-)

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Maes said:

Lol. Well...Doom has WolfenDoom. Wolf 3D has.... Doomenstein? Or Ersatz Doom? ;-)

I'm pretty sure the Doom TC for Wolfenstein is also called WolfenDoom, confusingly enough.

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Maes said:

Wolf 3D has.... Doomenstein?

I thought you were saying DoomenWolf :P but that DOOMENSTEIN is a total conversion for people who don't have computers strong enough to run Doom.

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Heh, that's neat. It's like a counter-easter egg to the Wolf3D stuff in DOOM II.

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Green and blue redwall1 or shawn2 versions? Are they that old?

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Not old, as this pack was released in May '94.

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