Map on idgames archive has modified E1M1

[Udderdude]

http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/?id=15785

Map 04 is E1M1 with more monsters and random crap added in.

The rest of the maps are pretty crappy, so it's not exactly a huge loss if this gets deleted.

[myk]

Yeah, the author could easily upload it without that level. Maybe he didn't read README.INCOMING before uploading. If you report it, you might want to let the author know what's up.

[SnowblindFatal]

Why exactly does anyone care that there are modifications of the original levels in the archives? Sure they go against the copyright, but the only people that seem to care are the ones it affects the least.

In other words, what is the point of this thread?

[Solarn]

I think one of myk's replies is Snarboo's community project thread sums it up perfectly. There's no real pressure on anyone to obey copyright laws related to Doom, as id is very unlikely to come and sue, but conversely, there's no protection for their work either.

Therefore, the only way to hope to receive the courtesy of your work being recognized as your own intellectual property and protected by members of the community and maintainers of the /idgames archive is to respect others in turn, including id Software.

A map that consists of nothing but a stock level with new monsters or sounds or whatever is a violation of id's intellectual property the same way taking one of your maps and overloading it with Cyberdemons, then releasing it as my own would be a violation of your intellectual property in an ethical, if not legal sense (since legally no maps created with Doom resources can be offered protection under copyright law due to the EULA of Doom).

[Mad Butcher]

I've always wondered why this is still in idgames. I'm sure quite a few people have already emailed Ty about it.

[Super Jamie]

Man, what a shit mod of E1M1.

It looks to be exactly the id map plus a Caco surrounded by barrels, a Manc, a few Arachnotrons and a Spider Mastermind battle in an empty square arena.

I was at least hoping for something different like punishr or smedley.

[Craigs]

SnowblindFatal said:

Why exactly does anyone care that there are modifications of the original levels in the archives? Sure they go against the copyright, but the only people that seem to care are the ones it affects the least.

In other words, what is the point of this thread?

Rules are rules and the rules say no to this sort of stuff.

[Super Jamie]

Out of interest, what are the rules on maps obviously based off originals, but expanded greatly?

Dario Casali's Punishr and TimeOfDeath's Smedley are great examples of this, as they make MAP01 almost unrecognisable by the end. Especially Smedley, it uses so many new textures and the layout and detailing are great. Whilst Dario did work on Final Doom, he really has no more or less of a claim over id's copyrights than anyone else does.

Wraith's Wonderful Doom also uses a fair amount of IWAD areas, though his own additions are nowhere near as good as the previous two. I would go as far as to say it's a megawad of original areas in a different order with featureless passages inbetween, but that's just my opinion.

Wraith and ToD both state they did not copy-paste from the IWADs. However any of us can sit there with two level editor windows open and recreate the areas to end up with essentially the same product. The verticies are still in the same place, that's just copy-paste done by a human instead of a computer.

Go 2 It is obviously allowed as it was contained within Plutonia, an id Software commercial product. PL2's Go 4 It is perhaps a bit more questionable.

The first rule in README.INCOMING is after all:
1. Don't upload anything that's based on or modified versions of the original levels of any of the id Software games.

I am not suggesting any of these maps be nominated for deletion, and if we started on that track Ty would have alot of maps to delete (there are at least 3 Duke3D E1M1 remakes, and countless maps which use Duke/Her/Hex/Blood/Thief/etc textures) and it would remove some very historical, fun and important content from idgames. Not to mention making the whole Doom community less fun for all of us.

I'm just wishing to encourage discussion and perhaps define some more stable boundaries of what's a ripoff and what's not.

[Graf Zahl]

According to the game's license it is fine to modify a map as long as it has to be played with the same IWAD.

Don't forget: KDiZD was allowed in /idgames after confirming its legality. In that regard, Wonderful Doom is not a problem. It may contain bits and pieces of the original maps but

a) the whole bears little resemblance to the originals' layouts and
b) it must be played with Doom.wad - the source of the originals.


Regarding texture and sprite rips, if all maps containing them had to be removed /idgames would be a dull place. Most of the good stuff would be gone. Sure, it's not legal but it has been going on for >10 years without any action so far.

[myk]

Ty said the rule is to keep out a plethora of cheap hacks of the levels, which was common in the early days (and hypothetically, one could still try to upload to idgames today, as people do upload '94 stuff missing from the archive). He noted that creative stuff using id's levels as a base can well be excepted from the rule. This is reinforced by the fact that, as noted, id allows modification of their levels under certain conditions.

[printz]

When will the whole 3dgamers idgames archive have a full law trial, sorting out maps that don't comply with copyrights (with any other property)? What does Doom have to commit to receive this?

[Solarn]

printz said:

When will the whole 3dgamers idgames archive have a full law trial, sorting out maps that don't comply with copyrights (with any other property)? What does Doom have to commit to receive this?

Hopefully we won't have to find out.

[Spleen]

I tend to think that modifications of DOOM levels aren't allowed for the same reason SLIGE/OBLIGE levels aren't....

That is, the author did not put in enough creative effort for it to actually be an original work by the author.