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udderdude

Random ideas

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Some random ideas for new enemies and monsters in Doom. I tried to focus on things I haven't personally seen done yet, and that I think would expand the game in interesting ways. Probably only possible to do this stuff in zDoom or Eternity.

Monster which consumes lesser monsters corpse and becomes more powerful. Somewhat like a reverse arch-vile.

Monster which crawls on the ceiling and attempts to leap down onto the player. Potentially could attempt to jump back up to the ceiling after chasing the player for awhile.

Monster which possesses other monsters and causes them to violently explode when near the player. Does not actually die if this happens, it just finds another monster to possess. Can only be killed when not possessing another monster. Can pass through other monsters.

Gun which paralyzes a demon, taking it out of play for the next 20 seconds, however any damage done to it will simply be absorbed. Alternately, damage done by the player could remove the paralyze effect, but this would make it pretty much useless unless you were really careful.

Gun which creates a flare that sticks wherever it hit and continues to do splash damage to anything in the area.

May post more if I get bored or think of something else. :P

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udderdude said:

Monster which crawls on the ceiling and attempts to leap down onto the player. Potentially could attempt to jump back up to the ceiling after chasing the player for awhile.


The Stalker from Strife :p

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Vermil said:

The Stalker from Strife :p


Guess I haven't played Strife enough to have remembered this. Maybe I should go back and replay it. :P

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Similar to the possessing monster, a small parasitic monster than infects other monsters, then after a very short gestation period the host monster explodes in a swarm of parasites who will then each seek out new monsters as hosts.

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Ixnatifual said:

Similar to the possessing monster, a small parasitic monster than infects other monsters, then after a very short gestation period the host monster explodes in a swarm of parasites who will then each seek out new monsters as hosts.


Unless the parasites also attack the player, they sound pretty nice to have around.

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Ixnatifual said:

Similar to the possessing monster, a small parasitic monster than infects other monsters, then after a very short gestation period the host monster explodes in a swarm of parasites who will then each seek out new monsters as hosts.

Be interesting for creative map makers, but I'd suspect you'd want to be careful with these lest you end up with most of the level's monster population parasitized. :P



Lemme add one: The Weaver: A spider-like monster that attacks with globs of webbing that stick to whatever they contact. Webs fade away after 1 minute (maybe?), but while active they're able to "ensnare" players upon contact (but other monsters are unaffected?). Webs can, however, be destroyed by players with melee, explosive, or energy weapons (maybe?).


General idea: Monsters that can dynamically alter the battlefield layout and topography on the fly. Would add an interesting element to gameplay.

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Creaphis said:

Unless the parasites also attack the player, they sound pretty nice to have around.

Not if you're playing Doom: Rampage Edition! (on second thought, it would be pretty nice there as well as you have an excuse to quit if you get infected)

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Oh, and this:

The Barrel Launcher: A robotic enemy that tosses explosive barrels with a trajectory towards the player. Barrels explode if they hit the player directly, otherwise they become normal barrels where they land.


General idea: Another layout/topography-altering monster. But this time only to make the player think about where they place their shots rather than simply their movements.

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Ixnatifual said:

Similar to the possessing monster, a small parasitic monster than infects other monsters, then after a very short gestation period the host monster explodes in a swarm of parasites who will then each seek out new monsters as hosts.


Yeah, this would easily lead to the entire map being flooded with parasites. And just how would you kill those little bastards? The only weapon I think would be effective against a locust swarm like that would be the BFG. And maybe the rocket launcher, but they'd be swarming all over your face, so prob. not a great idea ;P

They would have to be at least headcrab size for it to make much sense.

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TheeXile said:

General idea: Monsters that can dynamically alter the battlefield layout and topography on the fly. Would add an interesting element to gameplay.


I don't think the Doom engine is really made for this sort of thing.

I remember in the original Doom Bible, one of the monsters was supposed to have "Floor melting magic". I guess they realized it wouldn't work either.

The closest thing would be a portal on the floor that damages you when you stand on it, somewhat like a small temporary damaging floor sector. It might be too hard to see, though.

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udderdude said:

I don't think the Doom engine is really made for this sort of thing.

Why wouldn't it work? The game is already about that to some degree, as monsters and projectiles alter the "shape" of the battlefield in terms of player movement and tactics. Demons block your movement as space deniers. Imp, Caco, Baron, etc. projectiles move just slow enough that you have to plan your movements and avoid the areas they'll move into in order to not get hit. Hitscanners force you to use cover and planning. Etc.

I think there is room for a layer of somewhat-less transient dynamic elements such as webs and barrels, really. Floor changing might be a bit much, though (except maybe for a boss battle or something).

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udderdude said:

Yeah, this would easily lead to the entire map being flooded with parasites. And just how would you kill those little bastards? The only weapon I think would be effective against a locust swarm like that would be the BFG. And maybe the rocket launcher, but they'd be swarming all over your face, so prob. not a great idea ;P

They would have to be at least headcrab size for it to make much sense.

I would suggest that the gestated creatures (or at least some of them) to instead be of a different sort than the parasite. A sort that attacks the player rather than infecting monsters. At any rate, it should typically be in the player's interest to kill the parasite or the host before gestation. Alternatively, such a monster would require careful placement by the mapper.

Another alternative is that they only emerge upon the death of the monster. So if the player kills an infested monster, the little parasites come pouring out. The idea could be that they need a living host to sustain them.

Or instead of it being a monster, it could be a new type of player weapon. In this case it needs some limiting factors. Perhaps the monsters attack the parasites on sight, or the parasites expire quickly without a host.

I suppose most weapons would be effective against them unless they're made to be incredibly small. I agree that your estimate of head-crab size or larger would be good. Just not so large that it's too unbelievable.

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Ixnatifual said:

Similar to the possessing monster, a small parasitic monster than infects other monsters, then after a very short gestation period the host monster explodes in a swarm of parasites who will then each seek out new monsters as hosts.


Besides making them a respectable size, I think that they could perhaps infect monsters, but instead of using them to spawn more parasites actually make the host monster stronger (and heal them?) in a sort of cooperative relationship.

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TheeXile said:

General idea: Monsters that can dynamically alter the battlefield layout and topography on the fly. Would add an interesting element to gameplay.

That's Korax from Hexen right there.

Another idea: monsters that can activate nearby decorations, making them do mean things. Such as turning the red flames from the torches into lost souls. Or giving life to barrels.

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Care to elaborate? What's wrong with sentient walking barrels that explode next to you, after being enchanted by an archvile, of course?

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A monster that pretends to be a random standart decoration thing, but tries to walk/float towards you when you don't see him. Like Boos from Mario games, except with shape shifting power. So when you see a lamp or a column in a different place than before, you realise that you should kill it. (And it shouldn't react to weapon fire in any way, so if you accidentally hit it you don't get any clues. Unless you kill it, of course).
Too bad this seems impossible to do, otherwise i'd totally make such a monster and place a few instances of this in my wad.

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udderdude said:

Monster which consumes lesser monsters corpse and becomes more powerful. Somewhat like a reverse arch-vile.

While this wasn't a DOOM game, an enemy similar to this was seen in MK: Shaolin Monks. "Orochi Hellbeast" could consume lesser creatures around it, using them to restore its health, though they were alive when it consumed them.

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udderdude said:

Monster which consumes lesser monsters corpse and becomes more powerful. Somewhat like a reverse arch-vile.

Awesome idea. Romero talked about putting something in Doom where if you're at <10% health and you run over a corpse, you get 1 health as you eat their flesh :P Up to a max of 10% anyway. I swear this happened to me once but there was probably just a health vile behind a dead body.

Monster which crawls on the ceiling and attempts to leap down onto the player. Potentially could attempt to jump back up to the ceiling after chasing the player for awhile.

As Vermil said, the Stalker spiders from Strife. They're a good enemy in the right situation, though in the wrong one they get annoying fast.

Bullet ammo is so tight in Strife, you're more inclined to use the electric crossbow or rockets on them. In almost any map, by the time the projectile reaches the roof, the monster has moved.

You can hear them walking around so their AI is easy to fool. Just run under it so it drops but misses you, spin 180 and open fire. However when there's a big heap of them waiting in a room and you're in a passage with a lower roof (so they can't crawl down to get you) this just becomes a repetitive rush-spin-shoot-hide task, and auto-aim fucks you up as both the floor- and roof-dwellers move towards you.

If you get surrounded, you're more or less fucked. Savegames are alot more important in Strife than Doom. The enemies are either pathetically underpowered or unfairly overpowered, in both monster stats and the combinations/traps the mappers put them in.

Not to discourage, just some balance things to think about :)

Monster which possesses other monsters and causes them to violently explode when near the player. Does not actually die if this happens, it just finds another monster to possess. Can only be killed when not possessing another monster. Can pass through other monsters.

My first thought is that too many of these at a distance would just become a Serious Sam circlestrafe-fest. I'm picturing a transparent version of the ghost-thing from Quake which floats to another monster and vanishes ("into" the monster) when it's possessing. Like you said, can only take damage when it's not in someone else. Maybe give it a similar attack run to the Lost Soul to balance its' abilities? If it was too precise and fast, a room packed with zombiemen would quickly become very hard.

Gun which creates a flare that sticks wherever it hit and continues to do splash damage to anything in the area.

I love this. If they had gravity (like Skulltag's grenade gun) even better. You could make impenetrable walls of fire!

I also love Antroid's idea of the sneaky monster that gets closer while you're not looking. Like Ninja Cat.

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I'm up for any interesting monsters that aren't pests. Like those fucking hands from Blood.

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Super Jamie said:

Awesome idea. Romero talked about putting something in Doom where if you're at <10% health and you run over a corpse, you get 1 health as you eat their flesh :P Up to a max of 10% anyway. I swear this happened to me once but there was probably just a health vile behind a dead body.

Sure you weren't playing Wolfenstein?

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DuckReconMajor said:

Sure you weren't playing Wolfenstein?

Ahh, well spotted! I just remember Romero jumping up and down excitedly about the idea in the Masters Of Doom book :P

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I'd rather people make more custom monsters that were a lot more simple and would fit better in doom. I'm content with the many monsters that are merely recolors but with extra health.

I'd rather see more monsters that are similar to imps or hell knights or demons that behaved as if they were on -fastmonsters but in normal mode. Or monsters that launched fireballs in bursts, or fired 2-3 fire balls simultaneously at a time.

I kinda like your idea for a monster that crawls on the ceiling.

Preferably I'd like to see more flying monsters too. Cacodemons, PE's and Lost Souls just aren't enough. I'm particularly fond of killing monsters while they are flying high and watching them drop to the ground then rolling down a flight of stairs :)

(Don't direct me to already existing DECORATE monsters, I am well aware of the many custom monsters floating around, and that some of them matched the descriptions of monsters I made.)

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What would be really good is a fast, clever former human that can roll out of the way of projectiles and dodge, instead of the current 3 zombies who just shamble around and act retarded.

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arrrgh said:

What would be really good is a fast, clever former human that can roll out of the way of projectiles and dodge, instead of the current 3 zombies who just shamble around and act retarded.

What I really want is a monster that can shoot and move at the same time.

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DuckReconMajor, that should be possible in any port that has something like Eternity's KeepChasing monster AI codepointer. It's a "safe" version of Chase, that doesn't run the risk of causing internal engine hemorrhaging when Chase finds a new target while it's already in an attack sequence.

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Or giving life to barrels.

And what does the barrel do? Let me guess: it runs up to you, explodes, and kills you? And even if it doesn't do that, it would just give the player a reason to blow up all barrels on sight.

How about the bear-demon: a demon that crawls on all fours and swipes at you when your close, and then when you're far away it stands up and throws fireballs.

...and when you're high up, it will crawl up the wall to get you! Ok, maybe not.

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