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gggmork

copy/paste maps (2nd map finished)

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2nd map:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/gg5886
Finished second map (link updated) but the gameplay sucks; looks kinda good in a complex copy/paste way though I guess. Problem is too much space/ not enough monster-sight-blocking walls/confinement. Meaning you can generally run to the opposite side of the map which will be monster free (since everyone followed you to the current side), and everyone infights especially cybers + easy to get lost (but added lame arrowish landmark floor markers that point toward the center). So you can boringly meander around the perimeter until you have lots of cells (the very start is kinda fun though, but a pain to remember whether you pushed all 3 switches yet). Spent time detailing stuff visually before doing gameplay which was a mistake. Not fun to speed max cuz toward the end the only threat is a stray rocket/bad luck and restarting would be annoying.
Included a slow boring demo that used iddt map cheat and hud (to verify 100% kills toward the end just because large/complex maps have hard to find stragglers often stuck on ledges or something).

1st map:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/jaavh8
The basic copy paste framework took like 30 minutes. Playing/testing/aligning textures took longer. Its ok but not spectacular, lots of viles and kinda open chaotic play. Some infinitely tall monster annoyances due to varying floor height (like usual in doom) but not too bad. There's a ssg in the center of the path higher up. Opening the red door also opens a place with cell ammo on the opposite corner.

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Holy shit. that. was. fun. At first I died 5+ times without a solid breather spot but after that I only died 3 times. I saved about 10 times after that breather spot though ;D I'll completely disregard the copy/paste as it was all about the gampeplay.

Let's see, the beginning, red key door, and blue key area were the most intense, and most fun parts. Yellow key door was an 'oh shit!' moment, but was easier than the intense bits, except for a few archvile infestations that got out of hand (thanks much for the rockets by the way, archviles are kind of easy to rocket snipe once you get their attention). The final part was definitely an "OH SHIT", not an 'oh shit', although I'm proud of myself for not getting hit by a single rocket :D

All in all an awesome level. Too bad I'm most comfortable in skulltag, I think I'd actually try doing a demo of that map :(

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:)
Glad it works in zdoom, I didn't test in there (or skulltag/etc, just prboomplus). Interesting demo IG and first I've seen from you I think? I pretty much always test play in a 'run around fast and chaotically' route since I find that more fun/less tedious, so interesting to see how exploitable the 'do stuff procedurally one at a time' route is since that had pretty much no testing. Its hard to force gameplay to be the former (maybe if you start the player in the center of a huge horde/chaos and constantly add new monsters from all directions/etc). Plus that was only your 3rd attempt so I didn't really know how newbies to the map might play it at first (without knowing where everything is/etc).

I did a prboomplus demo that shows a more chaotic route but died at the very end:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/mp1fcz
Sometimes its even fun to purposely leave earlier viles alive just to keep it chaotic for later.
This map has a dumb name like usual, all well, that's what the file was called. I increased the scale of the entire map by 150% since that felt less cramped which explains a lot of weird textures. Lol, the cyber crate textures are all messed up on the inside, not that I care much.


EDIT: here's a 2:14 speed run. Not sure if that route would be faster/useful for max or not (you end up with pockets of enemies left throughout the map stuck by ledge or wall barriers toward the end). I probably should have ran through the last cybers earlier, all well.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/sphrfh
((oops, its 2:39, not 2:14... misnamed file))

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I just watched the demos, pretty sure I could never finish this map :P

Shame you died in that fail one, you were doing so amazingly well.

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Holy god that was crazy! Great map, lots of fun to play. Got killed the first time, but once I was able to get to that rocket launcher it was pretty smooth sailing.

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Awesome fast demo.

If anyone wants something to put in their recycle bin.. or have an odd craving to fight reverents poorly and incompletely textured as Big Bird in an epileptic orange background.. then.. be my guest.. I guess:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/id6xmj
(the actual level is pure crap, not even a level, just random minimal test junk to learn how to use xwe). That pathetic green thing is a test to potentially have a snake or something be able to curl/move all the way around something- which isn't even that amazing or anything since its just a resized texture.. Now it looks like a lame green squiggle drawn on some neopolitan ice cream. And I made cacos 4x larger and lamely redrew lost soul frames. Its retarded.

I'll probably try to make another 'copypaste' map, maybe with less potential for a procedural strategy.

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...heh, the first map was actually pretty fun to say the least.

Am wondering though, where did you get that term copy/paste...? The DooM haters in my circle refer to it as that as well......XP

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gggmork said:

:)
Glad it works in zdoom, I didn't test in there (or skulltag/etc, just prboomplus). Interesting demo IG and first I've seen from you I think? I pretty much always test play in a 'run around fast and chaotically' route since I find that more fun/less tedious, so interesting to see how exploitable the 'do stuff procedurally one at a time' route is since that had pretty much no testing. Its hard to force gameplay to be the former (maybe if you start the player in the center of a huge horde/chaos and constantly add new monsters from all directions/etc). Plus that was only your 3rd attempt so I didn't really know how newbies to the map might play it at first (without knowing where everything is/etc).


Yeah, I normally don't bother recording demo's - like you, I normally get a little chaotic with my play and, well, die. So I took it extra cautious on this attempt, though that was mostly due to dying to the second batch of arch viles, and I was in fear that you had another arch-vile trap set up behind/in front of me.

Still, I reckon you could come up with some great layouts, that would probably only need a little detail to become really fun slaughter maps :)

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Nice runs tat. I agree the end is kinda luck based (it'd be even more annoying if the level was longer due to having to restart everything when dying there). I tried using the warps like that, but doesn't work that great probably due to warping you back at the center. What works best for me is to move to the side as slow as possible (while still dodging rockets), but when you get about 3/4 across, move faster (this will spread out their rockets instead of a single stream/ easier to dodge when going the opposite direction).

By copy paste, I mean just that in doombuilder (its my lazy/quick method to build stuff.. I make a single rectangle of architectual 'stuff' inside a bounding box (so I only deal with 2-sided linedefs), texture that one rectangle, then copy paste and attach to the 1st rectangle, maybe with rotations/flips/height changes/etc. As long as you raise the pasted rectangles to the height you want before attaching, doombuilder keeps all the textures (since they're 2-sided) so you don't have to do more work (you have to retexture 1-sided attachments). I even lazily paste many items/enemies.

If interested I recommend time of death maps to speed runners (probably pretty hard to beat many times by now), also neon maps are pretty chaotic (previous threads).


EDIT: here's an imperfect 6:21 max
http://www.sendspace.com/file/jbibsd

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Nice run, tatsurd. I like the brief pause before the blue key cyber battle, like *deep breath*, heh heh. I was gonna comment on it when I finished my other map, but its taking longer than I thought to create it. Looking forward to whatever map you're making since speedrunners often make fun maps.

And nice.. TAS run.. TOD.. what it wasn't tas?? :P (stupid internet smileys). Its just as fun to watch either way, but just mentioning you missed 2 enemies: one baron who practically purposely stayed out of your vision by staying on the opposite side of a crate and one stuck shotgunner (unless playing by the 'don't have to kill resurrected monsters' rule which can be hard to keep track of). Finding the last stragglers can be a pain.

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Yeah, as I was killing the monsters by the yellow door, I noticed the kill counter was blue, so I just ran to the exit.

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Had a good play through this level. Almost finished it on my first try. (By chance I picked a good route through the level.) I thought I recorded a demo, but apparently I didn't. Damn.

Anyway, fun level. imo a little easier than the last couple of levels I have played of yours, gggmork. You must be slipping. :P

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Put another map in 1st post (should be harder than the last, though it can be fun to have speed be the primary difficulty focus (like in some time of death maps) instead of low health/ammo etc). I guess feel free to use hud stats/iddt if anyone feels like playing it (it would probably be annoying without it due to stragglers + large area).

edit: I think I need to make changes to the 2nd map, so probably not finished yet.

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I'm still playing the first map, trying to get under 4:30 with "smart totals" turned off in the hud options so you can see how many monsters are really left alive, but I've only done 4:42 so far.

I checked the second map in doom builder and it looks big. I'll probably just wait until you or someone else posts a demo and then play it. Your "easy" maps are my favourite cuz they don't make me suicidal!

Edit: 4:23 max on the first map

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Man, tried your second map and the thing is insane on UV. 4 to 5 times running for my life through the place and I STILL have no idea what to do other than press switches and hope to find the next megasphere. Some planning on my part is going to be needed ;D

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I think I give up trying to beat that. Tried other routes (kill blue key viles immediately, or kill all before blue door, or go in blue door asap and let cybers infight behind you). I thought I was doing good but then saw my time was like 5:40.
I should have made the raised blocking wall trigger near the cyber line be a single linedef instead of 2 (or sometimes you can walk over the 2nd on the way back and retrigger it).

Yeah, the 2nd map is too big and annoying (don't bother playing/demoing if you don't feel like it). But basically:
*hit 3 'light goes out' switches (each accesses a key)
*get 3 keys
*open 3 key doors and hit switch in each (after all 3 switched, masterminds/etc appear and exit slowly lowers)

The first 6 switches/keys each warp viles on the opposite side of the map.

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