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40oz

Icon of Sin

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Possible to make it so it doesn't complete a map by killing the icon of sin?

I was thinking about making a map where the icon of sin was more just a standalone monster than some epic boss. It would be cool if you had to kill it at the beginning of a map to open a door to the rest of the map.

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Using Dehacked you could replace its BrainDie codepointer (which ends the level) with KeenDie, which is a codepointer that works on any map and fast-opens doors tagged 666 (or was it 667? I forget).

You could also replace the BrainScream pointer with just regular Scream to stop it from spawning explosions everywhere on death, if you want.

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You could probably even just replace Keen's sprites and sounds with Romero's sprites and sounds and then put a Keen in your map, if you don't mind using a quick-and-dirty Romero effigy that spawns on the ceiling and dies quietly if you're far away.

If you want the Icon of Sin to launch spawn cubes, and stop launching them once it dies, the dehacked editing will have to be much more clever. I'm not sure, but I think you could put the bosseye's cube-spawning behaviour on a killable monster.

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You can hack the Romero head so it will not end the level, but any monsters spawners will continue producing minions after the head is dead.

If you want the player to be able to stop the boss from spawning stuff without ending the level, hack the "Demon spawner", making it shootable (and perhaps viewable) and giving it death frames. When it dies, it will stop generating monsters, because it does so only as long as frame 786, or its code pointer, is active. You can also give it a pain sequence, with a pain sound, but make sure it goes back to frame 786 after it gets hurt or it'll stop spawning stuff.

In this case, the spawner would be at once the target and the spawning point, as opposed to in the original game, where each is a separate thing.

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Seeing the subject title gave me an idea.

Would you play a megawad that's a compilation of various wads' MAP30s, as in 32 levels of Icon of Sin battles? The original one from Doom 2 could even start it off as its MAP01.

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spank said:


That's a compilation of several speedmaps from 2001. That doesn't exactly "salt the earth" for future Icon of Sin-based mapsets.

I've considered doing something like that too, but only in a casual, half-serious style, as most people aren't exactly clamouring for more Icon fights.

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Plus creating such a project would likely erase all reason to include Icon fights as the conclusion to every future wad release ever. :/ At least I think it would do.

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This endeavour will fail if it's not for a port disabling the annoying limit which prevents non-MAP30 cube spawnees from killing on creation.

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Jimmy91 said:

Plus creating such a project would likely erase all reason to include Icon fights as the conclusion to every future wad release ever. :/ At least I think it would do.


That may be a good thing. I'm sure many people would agree that Icon of Sins as the last boss is an extremely predictable and at this point loathsome ending. And the only thing increasing it's difficulty is giving it more monster spawners, and/or turning the map into a switch quest.

Since the Icon of Sin isn't exactly difficult to kill (2-5 rockets to the head should do it), It would be fun to see the Icon of Sin be made into a standalone monster, rather than an horribly dragged out ending to a good megawad. Since Doom 2 came out, Cyberdemons and Spider Masterminds are now regular monsters that we see early in the game. I think Icons of Sin are ready to be seen early in newer megawads too.

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Why don't you guys put your creativity to use and do something different with the Icon of Sin? You know it doesn't have to be the exact same set up every time...

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Yeah, maybe that's because people are calling it "Icon of Sin", which is the name of the level, and not necessarily of the "monster".

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I'm now tempted to make MAP01 of my episode have a brief icon of sin fight ... >.< ooohhh, the ideas ...

EDIT: Well I went ahead and did it. Check my Bunker hill/Area42 thread in wads/mods if you want to try it, and of course it's MAP01. Of course it's somewhat simple since it's a MAP01 but hey, maybe it's a new take.

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40oz said:

That may be a good thing. I'm sure many people would agree that Icon of Sins as the last boss is an extremely predictable and at this point loathsome ending. And the only thing increasing it's difficulty is giving it more monster spawners, and/or turning the map into a switch quest.

Since the Icon of Sin isn't exactly difficult to kill (2-5 rockets to the head should do it), It would be fun to see the Icon of Sin be made into a standalone monster, rather than an horribly dragged out ending to a good megawad. Since Doom 2 came out, Cyberdemons and Spider Masterminds are now regular monsters that we see early in the game. I think Icons of Sin are ready to be seen early in newer megawads too.


I recall someone on realm667 making a monster that sends out spawn cubes but can be killed.

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Chrispaks said:

I recall someone on realm667 making a monster that sends out spawn cubes but can be killed.

The sentinel. But hey, those cubes act differently :P

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I remember Memento Mori's MAP30. Instead of cubes, the Icon fired rockets at you thanks to a cyberdemon behind the brain. I thought it was a glitch that the Icon didn't fire cubes and was pretty much helpless after the cybie was dead, but the Doom wiki confirmed that it was supposed to be like that.

I suppose that was a creative use of the bosswall back in the day...

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