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Abyssalstudios1

Your Deathmatch preferences

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I've got all of the map ideas out of my head for a 30-map Deathmatch WAD. But before I go about sketching and then mapping them, I would like input.

It's simple: What do you like? Big, open plains or cramped little techbases? Invulnerability? How much do you care about lighting? How about texture variety?

Just give me things that you particularly enjoy (or despise) when you decide to go a'fragging. I'll probably also have a load of specific questions later.

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I like medium to small maps that are fairly wide open, but have just enough cover. Map07 is a terrific example of the size and rough features, though I wouldn't mind a little bit bigger.

Lighting isn't much of a factor in DM, frankly; a DM map should be well lit since you should be more worried about gameplay than atmosphere. Only super dark places should be places intended for camping, but should also have some way of evading or even punishing the camper.

As for texture variety, I'm usually not paying that much attention to the environment so it's not that important--BUT, you need to make sure that important features are well contrasted enough so they don't blend in too much.

BFGs should be kept to the absolute minimum, and it should always be difficult to get one.

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Deathmatch maps kinda run under the same formula for me.

#1: Consistent texture theme. (2-3 varying colors at most)
#2: 3-5 "Main Rooms" where most of the fighting takes place.
#3: At least two ways in and out of every main room.
#4: Shotguns/Chainguns/Rocketlaunchers - Everywhere. Plasma Gun - Hard to get. BFG - Near impossible.
#5: Lighting overall should be between 160-255. You can have small things casting shadows or flashing that are darker than that but the majority of the rooms should be within that range.
#6: Respect for Doomguys speed: Doomguy runs FAST, so make your maps more reminiscent to a race track than deathmatch layouts you'd find in games like Halo or Call of Duty. It's fun running up and down curvy staircases and running across pillars and elevators and such. Hallways must always be 192 width or more, and they have to be smooth, so you're not bumping into columns and decorations. You can still put details protruding from the wall, but make sure there are impassible lines around them to keep players from bumping into them, completely stopping their velocity.

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Hrmm well I don't restrict myself to playing (or mapping) solely small or large maps. I like to play a good mix, also it depends how I feel and what player numbers are like.

But it is rare that I can sit and play through a whole bunch of green/brown/gray maps back-to-back, unless they are something above average like Greenwar or Dwango10. Otherwise the maps all just tend to be a dull coloured blur.

ShinFFA is an excellent example of a DM megawad - actually over 32 maps so more like an 'ultrawad' - with a huge range of themes, layouts and gameplay. He also makes great use of the weapons, with not all being available on every map, BFG being hard to come by and many maps which avoid the frequent DM pitfall of SSG-on-every-spawn.

Final note: map flow can be important but sometimes not so much. Many people still swear by D2M1 for duels and that's as deadended as they come *shrug*

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ShinFFA? I don't like those maps much at all. I'd much rather reccomend UDMX or Crucified Dreams.

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I like multiplayer maps that revole around a theme (space port or factory are just examples) I also find traps fun such as a player running down a hallway you press a switch and a ceiling crushes him. Cover wise there should be areas with lots of cover and areas with little cover. This is just my opinion of course.

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Traps in a deathmatch? Maybe, and I seriously mean MAYBE, they're OK if they're to help balance getting a power weapon (particularly BFG), but otherwise no, no, no, no, no, no, a million times NO.

D2DM4 in Skulltag is a good example of decent use of crushers in a DM map, but I wouldn't advise much different from that.

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my opinion for maps:

A theme
you need one...its very important
also you need to be able to move around easily but also have cover at the same time

no tricks or cheats
i hate power ups in multiplayer
also you need decent lighting and good texture use

and in the end balance is key
dont put the rocket launcher and its ammo in the same room
but you could put a shot gun and shotgun shells int he same room
theres a big difference


symmetry is a very good way to balance you maps

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Skrying said:

my opinion for maps:

A theme
you need one...its very important
also you need to be able to move around easily but also have cover at the same time

no tricks or cheats
i hate power ups in multiplayer
also you need decent lighting and good texture use

and in the end balance is key
dont put the rocket launcher and its ammo in the same room
but you could put a shot gun and shotgun shells int he same room
theres a big difference


symmetry is a very good way to balance you maps


It doesn't really sound like you have played that much deathmatch.

Symmetry can also be a huge way to make a deathmatch map boring.

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Torn said:

It doesn't really sound like you have played that much deathmatch.

Symmetry can also be a huge way to make a deathmatch map boring.


sounds to me like you make boring symmetrical maps

(sorry for going off topic with this post)

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Skrying said:

sounds to me like you make boring symmetrical maps

(sorry for going off topic with this post)


He doesn't make that much of symmetrical maps, he makes them like what you see in SMII, both kick ass and eye appealing.


My preference for deathmatch maps are:
Large, non-cramped, eye appealing
Gloomy and dark
Void of Death edge traps
No BFG, just everything else
Hidden areas

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Skrying said:

symmetry is a very good way to balance you maps

Heh, controversial it may be, but there's actually no arguing with that statement. Note that the did not say he in any way endorses them, just that it's an aid to balancing a map.

Even X-Y symmetrical maps can be fun sometimes - look at Dwango5 Map07 - but I'd never want to play a whole WAD of them.

40oz said:

ShinFFA? I don't like those maps much at all. I'd much rather reccomend UDMX or Crucified Dreams.

UDMX sure! Crucified dreams has too much imbalance. There's a whole bunch of small 2way mirrored maps which always have a sphere in the middle and then there's others which are huge and beyond.


Oh and one thing which I generally hate in deathmatch maps is fake one-way walls.

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kristus said:

Symmetry to balance is pointless in DM maps since you don't have individual bases.


you still must have balance

like if you had a room with the bfg and a bunch of cell packs
someone could camp that room
every one would run the the bfg room and get owned

you have to make sure if you put an extremely powerful weapon then make sure there isnt much ammo for it on the map

like a map im workin on now there is a rocket launcher and a grenade launcher and the ammo for the two weapons is the rockets

so i only put 3 rocket ammos on the map
that way someone could use the weapon for a short period get a good few kills and have to wait for the respawn

see balance is important to make a map fair to all players not just yourself or the ones who know how to play the map

it makes your maps globally liked...cause then if its balanced its a test of skill not who can get the bfg first or the rocket launcher

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I like hallways that are 128 in width (any narrower generally = fail) and not too long connected to medium sized rooms (map01's dark room in size). I think lighting can be a plus in DM as long as the dark areas are small and don't cover a significant area and are used sparingly. Maybe a dark corner here and there to camp from (but which isn't in a safe place). Simple but creative outdoor areas are major bonus if done well (preferably not too grid conforming). Generally prefer no powerups greater than a green armor. A well placed SSG blast that fails to get the job done is just no fun. Doors and lifts to a minimum. Doors should almost never connect areas and should only open to small, well stocked caches or a powerful weapon. Same thing for lifts. Plasma should not be so easy to get that a map degenerates into a plasma spam fest.

I like "circular" designs with no dead ends and easy flow in order to get to any part of the map easily and quickly. I dislike overly exposed maps--lots of cover is good.

Generally linear maps are harder to make fun than maps with many connections and many which ways in and out of rooms and areas.

Partial symmetry is cool--total symmetry is generally blech.

Simple, clean detailing. Too much detail is just distracting and cumbersome. Keep the gameplay smooth and clean with nothing to get snagged on or slow you down. (Are those detail supports keeping the walls from being smooth really necessary?)

No acid or crushers or other environment life enders.

Avoid making anything too difficult to get. This is a pitfall I fall into all the time mapping. If I want to put a BFG in a map but don't want it used all the time I make it hard to get. Then I spend half the map trying to get it and failing (and getting killed) which isn't fun. Running around fragging is fun, not trying to get hard to get items. If you want to put a BFG in a map but want it used sparingly, you can put it in a dm start that is only reachable via dm spawn (so on a high pillar or so) and then copy and paste the other dm starts to superimpose on themselves 5x or 10x and have there only be one dm start on the BFG making it rare to spawn there.

Lastly, you should never be running around with a pistol looking for a weapon for more than 5 seconds after spawning. Same goes for searching for shotgun ammo.

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I kinda disagree with the people that say no BFG. I think it's okay to put BFGs in maps as a teaser, but you have to torture the hell out of anyone who tries to get it.

Long thin ledges the player has to scale around, press a switch that opens a timed door at the other side of the map, jump in a teleport, run across lava then stairs up to a tall bridge with crushers on it, get the bfg, lift lowers down to a cage in the center of the map where the player is visible and surrounded, and has to wait patiently for the 4 seconds until the lift goes back, then has to run across another bridge with more crushers just to get out in the open so the player can use it. All the while these obstacles have to be visible by the other players in the map so the bfg seeker can get wasted trying to get it.

Or you can put the bfg in an open window, and put a door inaide the room to make it look like there's a way in, but there really is no way to get it.

Hellbent said:

Lastly, you should never be running around with a pistol looking for a weapon for more than 5 seconds after spawning. Same goes for searching for shotgun ammo.


More like one second.

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If the players are any good at all, the BFG is less powerful than the ssg anyway. This bescomes less true with increasing number of players.

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@Erik, yeah but Balance in FFA is pretty much an illusion anyway. You can always go after the weakest players and evade the strongest for instance.

Skrying said:

you still must have balance

Thank you for completely ignoring what I said.

Also, I dunno what settings you play on yourself. But generally people play DM on Nightmare skill and that gives the weapons a rather healthy stack of ammo at the pickup. The rockets being the least with 10 ammo. But the Rocket isn't a great weapon in DM in Doom. The Super Shotgun gets 40 ammo. And then 40 again for the Shotgun. Which is (The SSG that is) a more powerful weapon than the Rocket launcher is in DM.

Then you mentioned the Grenade Launcher which is just a spammy mess.

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Hellbent said:

Generally prefer no powerups greater than a green armor. A well placed SSG blast that fails to get the job done is just no fun.

This is where Deathmatch opinions vary wildly. It's also no fun if you're the guy who just spawned and got raped for the fifth consecutive time by the guy who already has the SSG and heard you spawn ...or if you'd picked up a freakin' soulsphere but still get mowed down in one SSG blast.

Therefore the presence of (even one) SSG is all the more reason to include powerups in a map.

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Hellbent said:

Lastly, you should never be running around with a pistol looking for a weapon for more than 5 seconds after spawning. Same goes for searching for shotgun ammo.


I'm getting into the habit of placing regular shotguns at spawn points, but putting SSGs in slightly more hard to reach areas (if only because you could get killed going for it).

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I have one thing to say.

Self Opening Doors.

In other words, a line def near the front of the door to open it so that Doomguy can keep his velocity (most of the time) and dont have to worry about pressing 'Use' left and right.

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Ninjalah said:

I have one thing to say.

Self Opening Doors.

In other words, a line def near the front of the door to open it so that Doomguy can keep his velocity (most of the time) and dont have to worry about pressing 'Use' left and right.


Yeah I agree with that. While Doors aren't needed in a deathmatch map, they are nice to have, and even better if they open on their own. The door should be able to be operated with the USE key, in addition to opening up by walkover lines (in case the door is already opened and closes between the walkover line and the door, the player doesn't have to walk back to open it). The walkover line should be about 256 units away from the door, that way even running at top speed, the player won't bump his head on the door as its going up.

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Ninjalah said:

Self Opening Doors.


Definitely that. If the map has any doors...


I'm wondering; are you planning to make the whole set playable by the same group? What I mean is, will they all be best for 6-8 players? I think really small and really big maps require some more particular layout planning. Either way, the most important thing is to be able to run and gun like a crazy fool!

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